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DH and I have been together for 9 years. Just got married a month ago. We do not have kids, but hope to in the very near future. Right now we just have two very spoiled kitties.
__________________ Cris Wife to Chris, Mama to Aidan
I think this is an interesting thread for mothers and non-mothers alike. I personally don't agree with everything posted here, but each person is allowed her own opinion. I made my choice NOT to have children, but I see the other side of the issue with my sister. She is 36 and she and her husban desperately want children and have been TTC. I do hear all about them "really wanting kids" but rightly so...it is what they want more than anything. I think those of us that choose not to don't necessarily understand the feelings that drive those who want children so badly.
Please ladies, this is a discussion thread where EVERYONE is welcome no matter what their opinion. Agree to disagree but please play nice! (as I would say to my kids if I had any)
colleen
__________________ Colleen Schaan - Education Specialist at Imagination International Inc.,/Copic Marker
Blog - Distinctive Touches;My Copic Books!
There are plenty of threads for the constant soap opera of those TTC's out there. This thread is for those who don't have kids and are tired of all the poor, poor, pitiful me, I can't have kids. There, I'm being even more harsh. Sorry, but if you don't like the subject line, stay out of the thread. Am I being too harsh? If ya'll think I am, I'll unsubscribe to this thread. :rolleyes: Now, you made my BP go up. Time to go eat dessert and calm down.
I may be in the minority, but I don't think you're being harsh. OK, maybe a little, but this thread IS for those of us without children, whatever the reason. I have to say, I, too, am sick to death of the looks of pity, the questioning looks, the "but you two would be such WONDERFUL parents!" from those who have children and think the world should.
"What's wrong with you? Can't you *have* children? Is there a medical problem? Doctors are doing amazing things these days for couples. And there's always adoption...."
All that from someone you met 5 minutes ago in the doctor's office or at work or where ever. Apparently I suffered brain damage at some point because the thought of not sleeping for 18 years and occasionally cleaning up someone else's puke is not appealing to me. Go figure.
My theory is that all those busy-bodies who inquire and push us to have kids just want to trick us into it so someone will share their misery.
To be honest, I do applaude those who can give of themselves 110% to have children and are good parents. There aren't many people who can, but those who do tend to have outstanding, funny, sweet kids. Sadly, as a teacher, I see so many of the other kind (like 99%) that it makes me ache.
Me? I like having funnel cake for dinner and spending the day watching TV on the couch watching what *I* want to watch,
Location: in my very own first townhome with my dog and 2 cats in Culpeper, VA!
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I'm single and no kids......Wishing though that I was married and had kids more than anything. BUT God hasn't graced me with hubby to be yet. Waiting impatiently I guess you could say. I have kitty child...but he's unfortunately staying with my parents right now till I get shore duty. Sometimes I wonder why I joined the navy cause it definitely makes it hard to have a NORMAL life...
__________________ Heather Things I adore: nature walks, my pets, Xbox360 & MY FAMILY & FRIENDS!!!!
Does it count if the kids are BIG and away from home? 1 set of grandkids don't visit much, the other set live 3 hours away, so our house is full of DH, me and the King of Our Castle (see avatar).
Then again, DH is a kid, so maybe I don't belong here!
__________________ I stamp ~ therefore....I work!
NavyWifeArmyMom Come Visit Me At ... A Work In Progress
I love this thread, It is really nice to go out in public and not hear the shrill screams of a child throwing a tantrum while it's parent are ignoring them and shopping or dining. I realize that children are just as entitled to inhabit public places as I am, but most of the time the parent is just not really aware that yes, it's great that they are there with Boo Boo.. but, most retail outlets are too much overstimulation for small children, and even adults can only handle fifteen minutes in the glaring flourescent lights and the tin can soundsystem piping in bad music.... and the lines, the product placement and the enticement of sugary foods and bright colors...let alone a days worth of errands and retail therapy.
It is really nice to go out in public and not hear the shrill screams of a child throwing a tantrum while it's parent are ignoring them and shopping or dining.
To those of you who struggle to keep your child polite and well-behaved in public, I thank you.
I went to Village Inn once with my husband and my demo and her husband. We had just finished ordering dinner, when a family with three small kids were seated in the booth behind us. At some point during the dinner, two of the kids started wrestling and fighting behind my DH and I. One was shoved against the booth and wacked me in the head. My DH asked the boys if they could please stop fighting, because they had just hit me. The boys stopped. The mother however, turned around and yelled at my husband - WELL WHAT DO YOU EXPECT, THIS IS A FAMILY RESTAURANT??
Sorry, I promise no more ranting..... ;)
__________________ Meet the cutest apricot pug ever...Honey!
*wave* I think I am an OINK. I am married but we have only One Income (his) and we have No Kids.
We get a lot of pressure to have kids, esp since my DH is the first-born son of a fairly traditional Chinese family. I have heard on more than one occasion that it is my "duty" to give my in-laws a grandson! But it is our decision and we think that pleasing the in-laws isn't the greatest reason to have kids.
I have 4 nephews that I adore and like everyone else has mentioned, I love spoiling them and then sending them back to their parents (my sisters). I consider it a kind of revenge for all the teasing they did of me when we were kids. I especially like to buy them things that make a lot of noise.
It's nice to see others on here who have made similar decisions. I don't feel so alone!
*wave* I think I am an OINK. I am married but we have only One Income (his) and we have No Kids.
We get a lot of pressure to have kids, esp since my DH is the first-born son of a fairly traditional Chinese family. I have heard on more than one occasion that it is my "duty" to give my in-laws a grandson! But it is our decision and we think that pleasing the in-laws isn't the greatest reason to have kids.
I have 4 nephews that I adore and like everyone else has mentioned, I love spoiling them and then sending them back to their parents (my sisters). I consider it a kind of revenge for all the teasing they did of me when we were kids. I especially like to buy them things that make a lot of noise.
It's nice to see others on here who have made similar decisions. I don't feel so alone!
I don't think Jennifer liked what I had to say. Oh, well, I'm crushed.
Cassandra, your "duty" is to your marriage and the love between you and your DH. A nice drum set would be a good gift for your nephews! :cool:
Please ladies, this is a discussion thread where EVERYONE is welcome no matter what their opinion. Agree to disagree but please play nice! (as I would say to my kids if I had any)
colleen
I agree! I have to say i'm quite dissapointed at most of the comments in this thread and find it ironic that a lot of these childless women find it so easy to pass judgement on those of us with children. :( No child acts perfectly 100% of the time... and i'm sure these women weren't perfect children either.
I guess I should stop reading anyways, because there's way too much 'child/parent' bashing going on in this thread anyways. I'm a newbie here but think i'll stay out of the forums and just browse the gallery for now.
God Bless everyone.
__________________ ~It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got~ Sheryl Crowe
There are plenty of threads for the constant soap opera of those TTC's out there. This thread is for those who don't have kids and are tired of all the poor, poor, pitiful me, I can't have kids. There, I'm being even more harsh. Sorry, but if you don't like the subject line, stay out of the thread. Am I being too harsh? If ya'll think I am, I'll unsubscribe to this thread. :rolleyes: Now, you made my BP go up. Time to go eat dessert and calm down.
I hardly think you snarky remark was called for... anyways, like I said, i'm done with this thread. Just saw your reply to me and thought i'd answer. Thanks for your reply no matter how rude it was to me.
Something for you to think on...
Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up. ~Jesse Jackson
__________________ ~It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got~ Sheryl Crowe
Another non-mom stamper here. I am married but childless (and plan to stay that way ;) ).
After reading all 3 pages I wanted to add that I too am an elementary teacher and teaching was the primary reason I DON'T want kids. Prior to teaching I was wishy-washy about kids. One day I was interested, the next I wasn't for sure. After teaching 25 10 years olds I CHANGED MY MIND! No kids for me! I'd get fixed tomorrow but the doctors won't do it (they say I'm too young, I might change my mind later, etc.) . It drives me bonkers to go to a nice restaurant with my DH and listen to a child scream and cry the whole time we are trying to eat a nice dinner and the parents just sit there and let the child throw a fit. After teaching kids all day, I want a relaxing night out with my DH not to eat while listening to a child throwing a fit. When a child cries or has a temper tantrum and the parents are trying to control the situation I can handle that as no child is perfect. But those parent who just sit there and let it happen without even making an attempt to stop them I get ticked.
I get sick of the you'll change your mind, you're so selfish, who will take care of you, and so on too. I wish people would just respect our decision and not question us about it.
__________________ Jess Don't tell God how big the storm is, tell the storm how big your God is!
Last edited by jdarnall2001; 07-24-2005 at 05:39 AM..
Reason: Add more info
Apparently I suffered brain damage at some point because the thought of not sleeping for 18 years and occasionally cleaning up someone else's puke is not appealing to me. Go figure.
LOL!!! I totally agree with you.
We have a friend of the family with a 10 month old child. He's a great baby most of the time. In fact, he was absolutely adorable until he became mobile. Now I want to say good-bye till he's as least 7 and becoming civilized.
And since we're on the subject of kids, one of my pet peeves is herds of children. I see people in stores with a ton of kids trailing along and it drives me nuts. People call those of us who wish to remain child-free selfish, but isn't it even more selfish to have 4, 5, 6 kids or more? Just because you *can* have a gazillion kids doesn't mean you should. Two words: BIRTH CONTROL.
__________________ Debra ---artist * teacher * designer Say yes. Be generous. Speak up. Love more. Trust yourself. Slow down. ---Patti Digh
Well, I don't know if I'm welcome here or not, but I figured I could post anyway, and hope that you ladies would welcome my opinions despite the fact that I'm a mom of three kids!
The reason I started reading this thread is that my DH and I were just having a conversaation related to this last night, and I was curious what your thoughts were on the subject. We just love our kids so much, and yes, we loved our 3 dogs and 1 cat as much as we thought we could love our children before we had them. We are animal-lovers, and we spoiled our "first" children probably more than most pet owners. In fact, in my previous life (as I refer to it or BC or Before Children) I was a pet groomer, so I know what love is for a fur-baby, and also what it's like to take care of other people's fur babies. It's just not the same as having your own.
Furthermore, in high school I was part of program where (during my senior year) I went into the classroom of an elementary school teacher for half a day, and assisted her with her class. I thought for sure I'd never have children after that! Don't get me wrong, I loved the kids, but I was really intimidated by how needy they seemed to be (enter memories of cafeteria duty and the sticky hands I would have after helping the kids cut their pancakes!). Actually, all through high school I figured I'd never have kids. I think the reason people with children (though not me!) may think that those without children are being "selfish" is that they think back to the time when they didn't have kids (like when they were back in high school) and associate the reasons they didn't want kids back then with why adults must not want children. Does that make sense? I know that whenever I take time (or money) for myself, as a parent, I struggle with feelings of guilt and thinking that I'm being selfish for not spending that time (or money) with (or on) my kids. So, maybe some parents (though not me!) who see others spend most of their time (and money) on themselves, they somehow transfer those feelings of selfishness I spoke of before, onto those same people. Clear as mud? I'm just speculating. I really have no idea what the motives are for people who don't have kids. I'm sure your reasons are as varied as the motives are for those of us that do have kids and want them.
Anyway, I also know what it's like to take care of other people's kids in my home. I did it for a whole 3 months, before I figured out it was NOT for me! And that was only one child (along with my oldest DS who was 2 at the time) who happended to belong to our best friends! All I can say, is that it is TOTALLY different when the child is your own. Patience and understanding grow exponentially when I'm dealing with my own kids.
The only feelings I have for those of you who don't have kids and don't plan to, is concern. And it's not that I think your lives are worth any less because you don't have kids or that I want you to share in my "misery", as someone put it earlier. I do understand those moments of frustration that every parent has, but I assure you that at least in my case, the moments of sheer delight and joy outnumber those fleeting feelings of aggrivation. It's just that I love my kids so much, and take such pleasure in watching them grow up and dreaming of their futures, that I wish that every person could share in that feeling. Of course, I know that you find joy and pleasure through other things, but from my standpoint, I just can't see how anything else could compare.
I enjoy stamping and have a craft corner in the basement and that is enough for me. I can't imagine what it would be like to stamp or write a response to a thread undistracted (I had to get up and change a pamper and get two cups of chocolate milk just in middle of this reply!), but I wouldn't trade in my kids (or pets!) or the many wonderful memories they've given me for anything! I respect the choices of everyone here, and have appreciated the glimpse that you all have shared into your perspectives. Well, there's a crying kid calling! Got to go!
I agree! I have to say i'm quite dissapointed at most of the comments in this thread and find it ironic that a lot of these childless women find it so easy to pass judgement on those of us with children. :( No child acts perfectly 100% of the time... and i'm sure these women weren't perfect children either.
I'm sorry, but I don't see "most" of the threads passing judgement on anyone. Just because there are people here who don't want to have children doesn't mean that we frown on those who do, or hate kids. In fact, many of the responses here have said, "I love my neices and nephews..." but that child-rearing just isn't for them. Why is that wrong?
I am a teacher. I like kids. But I don't like them enough to bring them home. I have a dear friend from high school who has a little boy, Ben, who is just a doll. Smart as a whip and cute as the day is long, but one temper tantrum and I am ready to curl into a fetal position in the corner and suck my thumb. That has nothing to do with Sarah and her parenting ability. Of COURSE he is going to be crakny sometimes -- he's 4! That doesn't make it any more comfortable for me.
BTW -- Just watched Bill Cosby last night and he summed it up. Mothers put a curse on their children when they are young: "Someday you will get married and you will have a child just like YOU!" Uhm, no thanks. No kid is perfect all the time, which is why I have chosen not to have one.
I truly respect Yva's opinion, but she'll never change my mind. I'll fight to the death her right to have an opinion, I just don't have to agree with it. Glad she's enjoying her kids.
I'm with Stampinmelis. I long for that fetal position when OPK's get wound up. I see a mom, very PG, pushing a stroller with another toddler (OR 2!) hanging on her skirt, and I tell myself "There but for the grace of God, go I." Grandchildren are great, but I don't miss them. If that's rude or snarky, oh well. I'll fight to the death to have my opinion, too. :cool:
The only feelings I have for those of you who don't have kids and don't plan to, is concern.
While I totally respect your opinion, there really is no need for concern. Just like sushi, stamping, and pets aren't for everyone, neither is raising a child. I feel that my life is very full right now. Full and happy. Amy (btalem) will back me up here -- my DH and I spend a LOT of time together. Almost every moment we aren't working. And we like it that way. We like waking up on a Saturday morning and staying in bed until noon with our kitties, reading or playing on our laptops. We like being able to, at the drop of a hat, change our plans to do something fun that WE want to do. We like going out for dinner, shopping, and spending time with our friends. And, frankly, I like my stuff! I like organization, a clean house, and quiet.
I'm not mommy material. Runny noses gross me out. Getting little sleep makes me not fun to be around (again, ask Amy!). I hate the idea of getting a "family" car. I gag when I have to deal with the cat box, let alone diapers.
Some would call it selfish. I call it living the life that I want to live, rather than the life others wish me to live.
So, again, no need for concern. I'm happy the way my life is now. I don't feel like I need a child to feel more fulfilled.
Guess I'll jump in too...DH and I have been married 6 years and DEFINITELY do not want children. It's partially the responsibility issue (i.e. selfish) and partially a financial issue (we'd never be able to buy toys for us (i.e. selfish again!) but we don't mind being selfish because it's the lifestyle we've CHOSEN.
I don't particularly like or dislike children - in fact, I enjoy talking to children in the 9-12 age range as you can start to glimpse the adult they are going to become in the conversations they have with you. (hope that makes sense) but I never feel the urge to hold a baby etc. If we unexpectedly found ourselves with a child for whatever reason, we would step up and I think we'd both make good parents but we just don't WANT to. My parent's loved us and I'm sure that all the talented, creative people on here who are SAHM's and otherwise who so carefully try to preserve and capture the essence of all their memories for when their children are older are wonderful parents who are doing their very best (which is all you can ask from anyone) and I don't know how you do it because I am simply beat to a sn*t when I get home from work! Kudos to you all.
...and now I just HAVE to comment on an underlying issue in this thread...this is my OPINION and is not written with any "attitude"...
The one or two people in this thread who may be either disappointed or a little snarky, are entitled to their opinions whether we agree with them or not. Perhaps some of the more controversial comments may seem a little non-PC but it is someone's opinion. It doesn't matter if you agree with them or if someone seems a little rude or someone else seems a little thin-skinned. I'm not sure why anyone would be "disappointed" in another adult's opinion especially knowing that this thread was intended for people who don't have children - you'd have to know there are lots of people who don't have children by choice. However, while you may certainly disagree with their opinion you shouldn't JUDGE them. This is something you can keep in mind for ALL posts on a forum. And if that doesn't work for you, add them to your ignore list!
Just to clarify, my concern is not that you all are not happy, but that at the end of your life, you might look back and regret not having kids. And I use the word "regret" with some hesitation, for lack of a better word. Not that it's a reason in itself to have kids, or that I'm trying to pursuade anyone here to have kids. I just wonder if, at some point later on, you might wonder, "What if?"
It wasn't until my DH and I had been dating for a long while, that I even thought about kids. We thought long and hard about it, and in the end, decided that we would both love to have kids of our own, and might even someday, if money permits, adopt. It was the right thing for us, just like I'm sure not having kids is the right thing for you.
If you read further down into the paragraph, you'll see that all I really wish, is for everyone to experience that kind of love - No matter where you get it or whom you give it to. Maybe I just like to think the best of people, but I think that's all that anyone wants, when they offer their "concern", (again for lack of a better word) or when they express confusion or disagreement with your choices. The one thing that I hope to teach my children is tolerance. We are all just people, wtih different expeirences and different passions, and we should be free to live our lives the way we choose without judgement. JMHO!
Just like any profession, not eveyone is called into motherhood, and those that are GOD BLESS YOU for doing so! It is probably the most difficult job in the world, on duty 24 hours a day/7days a week/365 a year... and the job description! WHEW!
Right now, I like being the spoiled self-centered person that I am, and while I would like to recieve that calling some day, today is not the day.
__________________
Got My Toes in the Water, Toes in the Sand, Not a worry in the World, Cold beer in my Hand.... Life is good today!
Yva, don't worry about me or any of these other ladies without kids, by choice. I don't regret things I can't change. I have lots of friends over my long life that just weren't happy with what they were dealt. Had kids after not wanting any. Wanting kids and not able to have them. Absentee fathers that couldn't take the heat (BIL), neglectful mothers (SIL), divorce to marry someone who could have kids (DB), you name it. No thanks. But it's nice of you to worry. :cool:
Just to clarify, my concern is not that you all are not happy, but that at the end of your life, you might look back and regret... And I use the word "regret" with some hesitation, for lack of a better word. Not that it's a reason in itself to have kids, or that I'm trying to pursuade anyone here to have kids. I just wonder if, at some point later on, you might wonder, "What if?"
I am sure there will be something you, or anyone for that matter, may or may not look back on and have hesitation, second-guessing or regrets about. Everyone will have a "What If" question at the end of his or her life.
__________________
Got My Toes in the Water, Toes in the Sand, Not a worry in the World, Cold beer in my Hand.... Life is good today!
45, never married, no kids, one slightly neurotic dog, 2 fabulous cats. I'm happy with my decision not to have kids but sometimes when I look at all the family scrapbook pages I wish I had kids to scrapbook! I have wonderful pages with my furry family.
While I totally respect your opinion, there really is no need for concern. Just like sushi, stamping, and pets aren't for everyone, neither is raising a child. I feel that my life is very full right now. Full and happy. Amy (btalem) will back me up here -- my DH and I spend a LOT of time together. Almost every moment we aren't working. And we like it that way. We like waking up on a Saturday morning and staying in bed until noon with our kitties, reading or playing on our laptops. We like being able to, at the drop of a hat, change our plans to do something fun that WE want to do. We like going out for dinner, shopping, and spending time with our friends. And, frankly, I like my stuff! I like organization, a clean house, and quiet.
I'm not mommy material. Runny noses gross me out. Getting little sleep makes me not fun to be around (again, ask Amy!). I hate the idea of getting a "family" car. I gag when I have to deal with the cat box, let alone diapers.
Some would call it selfish. I call it living the life that I want to live, rather than the life others wish me to live.
So, again, no need for concern. I'm happy the way my life is now. I don't feel like I need a child to feel more fulfilled.
I agree with everything Melissa said (especially the cranky when she doesn't get enough sleep - YIKES!!) Of course, I am also cranky.
I agree with many on this thread. I don't want your pity or feelings of concern. I have solid reasons for not wanting a kid - or more. My husband and I can't even take care of ourselves financially sometimes, I can't imagine throwing a kid into that mix - they are expensive! I like the ability to drop what I am doing and leave to go somewhere. On numerous occasions, I have called up Melissa and her DH and said let's go here, and gotten into the car and left. I don't have to worry about where everyone is going to sit b/c the car seat is in the way. I don't have to worry about making sure I have all the things that kids require (bottle, diapers, toys, stroller, etc) ready to go. I am a selfish person. I enjoy not having to worry about buying $50 in stamping supplies vs. needing to buy more formula for the kid or diapers or school clothing.
And you are right, JustMe, I was a horrible child. I can only imagine what kind of nut job my DH was as a kid. If the curse is true (that you get what you gave) then I refuse to have kids until my room at the loony bin is completely paid off!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
Finally, greetingsbydebra, I completely agree with you about the number of kids that people are having. I can't change the world, but I can only do what small part I can. Recycle, trying to be earth-friendly, etc. Overpopulation is a huge concern. Even if I decide to have children someday, I will NEVER have more than 2 (unless the second PG is twins....). I feel that I have a responsibility to not bring more children into this world than my husband and I will take out when we go. In other words, when we pass away, there will be two holes to be filled, not three, not five, not more. I understand why people had large amounts of kids in the past, but our quality of life has improved, but won't be that way for long if we don't start taking responsibility for it.
In closing, I would like to add that there are many out there who have had children with the belief that they can "fix" whatever is wrong with their marriage, their life, etc. I applaud those of us who don't want to have kids! Those of you that truly want kids - have them. Just be accepting of the fact that while not everyone likes sushi (grin - Melissa!!) not everyone likes kids.
__________________ Meet the cutest apricot pug ever...Honey!
Ok...had to pop back in. I share the feelings of so many women here. I don't mind kids, just don't want my own and I don't want to have to deal with other's...
I brought up earlier that some people call me selfish...and now I see some of you saying you ARE selfish...(don't want to change your lifestyle, like your freedom, like your financial status.) Please, stop calling yourself selfish!!!! Enjoying those things does NOT make us selfish.
(just smart!) .... okay, I threw that in as a joke...no offense intended to anyone else.
colleen
__________________ Colleen Schaan - Education Specialist at Imagination International Inc.,/Copic Marker
Blog - Distinctive Touches;My Copic Books!
No kids here!!! I'm a non-mom stamper - just me, hubby, three dogs and a kitty! We've been together 17 years and kids just never came up really and it never happened; so we are happy as a very small family!!
__________________ Donna Love my puppies! Thor 5 years; Maddee 5 years
I don't think the kids vs no-kids debate will ever end. It is almost (or worse) than the SAHM vs Working Mom debates. I'm not missing out on anything by not having kids. I laughed at most of the posts here and they sound just like myself and DH. We sleep in and do whatever we want when we want. I live in the Bay Area, my modest home cost me almost a half of million dollars! Financial, there is no way I could afford a child even if I wanted one. I have much love in my heart for family and friends.
As I said before, I commend mothers, especially working moms. I don't know how you do it as I could never. My mom is an incredible woman and raised three fabulous kids and I could never do it as well as she did. She stayed with me recently for a week and laughed and finally realized I will not be producing any grandbabies for her. But I did make a cute bragbook with her furry grandkids.
I would just hope that in a perfect world, women wouldn't attack other women as we have enough problems to overcome. But realize that motherhood isn't for everyone.
If you read further down into the paragraph, you'll see that all I really wish, is for everyone to experience that kind of love - No matter where you get it or whom you give it to. Maybe I just like to think the best of people, but I think that's all that anyone wants, when they offer their "concern", (again for lack of a better word) or when they express confusion or disagreement with your choices. The one thing that I hope to teach my children is tolerance. We are all just people, wtih different expeirences and different passions, and we should be free to live our lives the way we choose without judgement. JMHO!
I meant to respond to this before we left for brunch. I read your entire posting. And, as I said, I respect your right to your opinion, but when you offer "concern," it makes me feel like you see my position as negative in some way. I hear the word "concern," and I feel judged. You said you wish all could feel the love for and of a child because it is beautiful (para-phrasing), I wish a lot of things for this crazy world, but not everyone wants what I wish for them. I have a tremendously loving, caring husband. I don't know any other man like him, who treats his wife the way mine treats me. Perhaps that is a love that is enough for me. Perhaps that is all I need. Time will tell.
Tolerance means not questioning others' belief structures or desires. Tolerance means accepting and moving on, understanding that while you might not agree, the world has the right to do what it wishes. Offering "concern" to those with a dissenting opinion is condescension, in my opinion.
Yva, please know I am not trying to single you out or hurt your feelings. What you said just struck a nerve with me, and I'm not one to not speak my mind. I really do respect those of you who can be awesome moms and handle having children and raising them right. I have several friends who are mothers who are really wonderful and very happy. Good for them and good for you! It's just not for me, and I don't feel like I am missing out on anything -- not love, not a feeling of being needed, nothing.
I'm a mom (2 gorgeous boys) who completely understands & respects why other people choose not to become parents. DH and I had absolutely no plans for kids when whoops! we discovered we were going to have one. And while of course I love my boys so much it's almost disgusting, I don't think anyone's life is necessarily richer or poorer just based on whether or not they have children. For heaven's sake.
Honestly, it boggles me a little bit why anyone would *care* whether someone else had kids or not... how is it anyone's business but the person/couple in question? But then, DH's and my best couple friends don't have kids, so I guess we see it from a slightly different perspective...
Have to agree with all the suggestions about "birth control in the water," LOL! I see so many parents who shouldn't be... it's terribly sad... I can't understand how they can put up with their own ill-behaved children, let alone how they can think it's OK to allow their kids to unleash their brattiness in public.
Hi i'm Leslie
age 31
Married to aaron35 (supper great hubbie) for 8 years
no kids
Pre school teacher to 20 4yr olds ( my husband works in the childrens church program)
2 cats whom we love beyond measure
I read this thread just because I crave understanding from others that are in my situation. It's difficult at times to live inthis society where not having kids it a taboo.If you do not have children you're told "Well,.... when you quit stressing about it it will happen!...." or "How long have you been married?....oh so when are you going to have kids?" or if you say "well we can't have kids." you are then looked on with pity and asked about adoption etc... People assume that you should stop at nothing to gain access to the child having realm. I don't agree with that. but here is what I have learned over the last year or so.
Usually us Non child having people mostly end up in 2 categories. you are either child free (you see this as a good thing) or or childless (you see this as somthing that you wish had a different outcome) but within those 2 catergories there are many different headings. such as child free by choice or child free by chance. Then on the filp side there is childless by chance either by medical issues or religious or even by choice. I suppose for some on certain days you are childless and then on others you are childfree.
my husband and I are childfree by chance(unexplained infertility...) and choice. We thought we wanted kids and I suppose a very tiny % of our core still does. However, over time we've realized how much we've grown as a couple with out having kids and wonder if it would have been so if we had the child that we thought we wanted. so now we've chosen to EMBRACE our childfree atmoshphere and live life as it's been handed to us to the fullest!!!!! We think our gains far outway our losses!!!! We now know how much we ENJOY the Luxuries we can afford that we would not if it were the other way around. Some have expressed this as selfishness I choose to think of it as being fulfilled and realistic. We live our lives in a way that we hope there will be no regrets...but then isn't that how everyone lives their lives? I mean you just never know do you??
BUt as for do I feel sad a little bit?....Yeah some times but not usually. Most the time I'm like some other gal I read on here who said upon seeing a woman with several young children in tow thought "there but for the grace of GOD go I" I laughed out loud when i read that because after being with children all day I'm so glad to go home to my quiet if I want it to be house. IF my house messy it's because I made it so and if I don't have enough money for a stamp set it's because I spent it on somthing else I wanted rather than diapers or a childs future education. selfish????....nah just Satisfied and content.
thanks for listening and for all the posts so far it is very nice to know there ARE others of us out there!!!!!
Hi i'm Leslie
age 31
Married to aaron35 (supper great hubbie) for 8 years
no kids
Pre school teacher to 20 4yr olds ( my husband works in the childrens church program)
2 cats whom we love beyond measure
I read this thread just because I crave understanding from others that are in my situation. It's difficult at times to live inthis society where not having kids it a taboo.If you do not have children you're told "Well,.... when you quit stressing about it it will happen!...." or "How long have you been married?....oh so when are you going to have kids?" or if you say "well we can't have kids." you are then looked on with pity and asked about adoption etc... People assume that you should stop at nothing to gain access to the child having realm. I don't agree with that. but here is what I have learned over the last year or so.
Usually us Non child having people mostly end up in 2 categories. you are either child free (you see this as a good thing) or or childless (you see this as somthing that you wish had a different outcome) but within those 2 catergories there are many different headings. such as child free by choice or child free by chance. Then on the filp side there is childless by chance either by medical issues or religious or even by choice. I suppose for some on certain days you are childless and then on others you are childfree.
my husband and I are childfree by chance(unexplained infertility...) and choice. We thought we wanted kids and I suppose a very tiny % of our core still does. However, over time we've realized how much we've grown as a couple with out having kids and wonder if it would have been so if we had the child that we thought we wanted. so now we've chosen to EMBRACE our childfree atmoshphere and live life as it's been handed to us to the fullest!!!!! We think our gains far outway our losses!!!! We now know how much we ENJOY the Luxuries we can afford that we would not if it were the other way around. Some have expressed this as selfishness I choose to think of it as being fulfilled and realistic. We live our lives in a way that we hope there will be no regrets...but then isn't that how everyone lives their lives? I mean you just never know do you??
BUt as for do I feel sad a little bit?....Yeah some times but not usually. Most the time I'm like some other gal I read on here who said upon seeing a woman with several young children in tow thought "there but for the grace of GOD go I" I laughed out loud when i read that because after being with children all day I'm so glad to go home to my quiet if I want it to be house. IF my house messy it's because I made it so and if I don't have enough money for a stamp set it's because I spent it on somthing else I wanted rather than diapers or a childs future education. selfish????....nah just Satisfied and content.
thanks for listening and for all the posts so far it is very nice to know there ARE others of us out there!!!!!
CHILDFREE and enjoying it
LEslie
Leslie -
You have stated perfectly everything that is within me. Thank you. I only wish to say, "ditto"!!
__________________ Meet the cutest apricot pug ever...Honey!
StampinMellis - I think that maybe you just misunderstood what I wrote, or at least what I actually meant by what I wrote! That tends to happen on these boards, since you can't read someone's tone or see their expressions. That, and maybe I'm just not the best at expressing myself in writing! I agree with you 100% and it sounds like the points you were making were the exact points I was trying to express! What I said was that I wish that kind of love for everybody no matter where you get it from or who you give it to (meaning that it doesn't necessarily have to be from a child, it can be from your DH, family, friends, pet, etc.). All I was saying is that for me, personally, I've never felt that kind of love I feel for my kids for anyone else in my life, including my wonderful DH and my very loving family. Not to take away from my love for them...I love them all very dearly. I just think it might be something that you can't realize until you have a kid (that is, of course, if you want one!). But then again, you can't really miss something you haven't exprerienced, so you wouldn't even know you were missing it until you had a kid, and then you wouldn't (or shouldn't!) have a kid, unless you want one. I swear this makes sense in my head! I'm just not the best at expressing it.
I also didn't mean to use the word "concern", because I agree with you about the condescending tone it can sometimes have, but I just couldn't think of a better word at the time. Maybe "curiosity" would have been a better fit. I didn't mean to strike a nerve with you, and I apologize if I said anything that sounded condescending. I assure you that I really didn't mean it that way.
Tolerance means sympathy or indulgence of one's beliefs or practices differing from one's own. I'm not questioning your choice to be intolerant. I just want to try and understand you. In fact, I think that tolerance can only be fully achieved when you try to learn about others that are different than you, and accept them for who they are. I only question this choice so that I can learn more about you, what motivates you, what makes you happy, etc.
I don't have alot of friends, but the ones I do have seem to be other moms. Not that I don't appreciate those freindships! I do, and I don't know what I'd do without them! Who else can listen to me whine about my kids! ;) I did meet this great girl at convention a couple of years ago, that was married with no kids, and no plans for them either, and we hit it off! Too bad she's in Colorado! We roomed together, and stayed up talking all night! And for once, I was having a conversation that didn't revolve around my kids! Anyway, for a well-rounded life, I think we need to surround ourselves with a variety of people, cultures, food, etc. That's one of the reason's I got into stamping! So that I could venture out, and meet people with whom I shared something with, something outside of my life as a mom, something like a crazy obsession for stamps!
Anyway, I'm obviously a SAHM in a new place starved for adult conversation! I think I've shared my 2 cents, and then some!
PS. I like to live vicariously through my non-mom friends, so please feel free to elaborate on those European trips and lazy afternoons! I know my kids will be grown and gone before I know it, but I can dream can't I?
I'm a mother (of 4) and applaud people who know they don't want children, and don't have them. It's really hard to go against society's norms, whether it's not having children at all, or having more than the average 2 children.
I also don't know why people care so much why someone has children, or doesn't have them. But I do get annoyed when I read how some people *think* motherhood is. It's not just about whining, tantrums, pee, and puke. There's so much more that's good and wonderful about it. But I do know it's not for everyone. To each her own.
This was an interesting thread, it's a shame it had to get a bit nasty. At least I have the vision of the dog in heels pitter-pattering around the house - lol.
Duty, Schmooty
I just had to throw in my story
One last thing or 2 or 3
