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Ummm....the site was making money BEFORE it was sold. There were ads being sold long before that and the member company program...those folks have to pay to become a member company. SCS was making enough money that Daven was able to make it his full time job.
So the only difference now is who is selling the ads and who is writing the checks to the employees, one of whom is Daven.
Yep! Jan's so smart!!!
__________________ Jeanne S - Inky Paws SCS Moderator
I can certainly see your point. If I had paid $ for each card I submitted to my gallery last year without having to wait, it would probably have been pretty high (i.e. I don't submit many) BUT I pay the "fee" simply because I get sooooo much out of the site and would almost feel guilty for seeing/using all the ideas on this site without paying something. KWIM? Have a greay Labor Day.
Wanda
Here, here Wanda!! I second what you said and pretty much echo your sentiment - I also joined 'simply because I get sooooo much out of the site'. Lots of ideas and advice and help but most importantly, to me, I have been INSPIRED and am having a blast! Thanks so much to all who have made and make this site a reality
Last edited by QueenOfInkland; 09-01-2008 at 12:09 PM..
Reason: correct typo
I guess there are two issues here. The OP's issue is whether there is sufficient value to being a member of the Fan Club. The other issue is whether to donate at all.
With respect to the second issue, there seems to be the assumption that SCS needs the donations to stay alive. If I thought SCS needed Fan Club dues to stay alive, I'd sign up again.
For me it was different before the site was sold. It was Daven and Tracy and their employees and I felt an obligation to support them. I figured that they really needed the $$ to keep SCS growing and to support themselves and I was thrilled to donate.
Now it is owned by a big company and I just assume that the site is profitable as is. I have no idea whether the Fan Club dues are necessary to keep SCS as is, or just gravy on top of substantial advertising revenue. It is possible that I am wrong. If so, I would love to know that.
I listen to the radio a lot, but I don't donate to the companies that own the stations. I assume that the revenue from advertising is sufficient.
It has nothing to do with the quality of SCS. It rocks.
__________________ Dear Paperlicious is my blog...with a series on how I'm learning to improve my cardmaking by studying others.
I think for me, the crunch about renewing would be whether the Dirty Dozen got something from it.
As has been said before, this site did make a profit, but it also needed to pay salaries and support Daven and his family. By joining the FC I was helping to build up this site, and chipping in to help.
Now there is a company that has valued this site's growth and bought into it, with a view to enhancing it and helping it to grow some more, because that generates something for them, (and it's not tutorials), in effect they are like ONE HUGE FAN CLUB donation, so what is my donation for?
If it's for the DD then that's fine, if it's to repay the company that is hoping to benefit from the growth of SCS then I need a moment to ponder on it.
I dropped my subscription. I no longer see it as a necessity to keep this site running and I think Davin and Tracey received compensation for the site and now it is owned by big business. I don't upload here, so I would be getting nothing from my membership. I have seen awesome blogs from people on this site, so get the same thing the DD could be giving me without paying.
I took out my calculator and determined that the cost per day to be a member of the SCS Fan Club is just under a whopping 7 cents a day.
Do I get my 7 cents worth each day??
Let's see:
I am daily inspired by the amazing work of the stampers (not only DD members) who post their work to the galleries.
I regularly take part in the daily challenges and upload about 4 cards a week to my gallery without having to wait for moderator approval.
I have developed cyber friendships all over the world with people who share the same interests and passions as I do.
I have sent and received RAKS that have uplifted my spirits and make me feel that they work I do makes a difference to others.
Through my participation on this site, my work has been recognized and I have been invited to spend time as a guest designer for a wonderful stamp company.
I have learned and learned and learned about the art of stamping and my skill level is far beyond where it was when I started here almost 4 years ago.
I have attended 3 SCS Gatherings (and will be attending another on October 4 in Austin, Texas) where I have met and stamped with other talented Splitcoaststampers whom I would never have met had it not been for my participation on this site.
Seems to me that I am getting much more than I pay for!! I will always be a member of the SCS Fan Club and one of its biggest fans until they pry my cold dead fingers from the keyboard!
Supporting this site is a no brainer....the fan club fees are NOTHING...they cost as much as buying two magazines a year and you get tons more inspiration...
Getting fast uploads and the DD gallery are just extras (and they are awesome extras!)
I am so glad to see SCS doing well---there is a ton of work that goes into a site so large and it would be a shame if those who were "behind" the scenes weren't being compensated for their hard work!
Off topic: I DO think that the Dirty Dozen artists should be compensated if the site is a big money-maker. They put A LOT of blood, sweat and tears into their creations for us month after month and I know that it is a ton of work. When you submit to (most) publications, you are compensated for your work and your time---so I think they should be as well!
That being said---I have no idea if they are compensated but I think if they aren't---they should be!
In the beginning, it was all about helping the Nolta family defray the expenses for an ever-expanding site. The DD gallery was a small thank you for those who were able to make a financial contribution. Later, recognizing that the DD gallery was a nice extra, but maybe not relevant to everyone, we added instant uploads as a perk. Lately, we've been brainstorming more ways to add value to what you get when you support the site. We have a ton of ideas, and hope to bring 'em to reality hopefully at the beginning of the year. I'm saying it *out loud* so we'll have to stick to it!
Fan Club subscriptions have been and continue to be a big part of the site. I don't know exact numbers, but am pretty sure that along with advertising revenue. . .it keeps the site alive. No matter who pays those gargantuan bills for the servers and the hosting and bandwidth, there are still expenses involved. I'll see if Daven can get in here and say something, too.
Thank you, Elaine and everyone for sharing your thoughts with us. We appreciate hearing from you!
I will continue with my fan club membership. I have purchased 2 magazines hoping to be inspired. I was not, but I am here and I love to aspire to have some of the talent of the DD's, past and present.
I kinda agree on the letting the subscription go. I've been a fan club memeber for a while now and am a bit disappointed in some of the stamped work out there.
I'll continue my membership, but I think there are better works by ordinary people and plenty of blogs filled with tutorials, and very nice art.
I guess there are two issues here. The OP's issue is whether there is sufficient value to being a member of the Fan Club. The other issue is whether to donate at all.
With respect to the second issue, there seems to be the assumption that SCS needs the donations to stay alive. If I thought SCS needed Fan Club dues to stay alive, I'd sign up again.
For me it was different before the site was sold. It was Daven and Tracy and their employees and I felt an obligation to support them. I figured that they really needed the $$ to keep SCS growing and to support themselves and I was thrilled to donate.
Now it is owned by a big company and I just assume that the site is profitable as is. I have no idea whether the Fan Club dues are necessary to keep SCS as is, or just gravy on top of substantial advertising revenue. It is possible that I am wrong. If so, I would love to know that.
I listen to the radio a lot, but I don't donate to the companies that own the stations. I assume that the revenue from advertising is sufficient.
It has nothing to do with the quality of SCS. It rocks.
Good points Joan!
Payment or donation? I WANT instant uploads which I cannot get for free, so am happy to pay for that. Donations are a little harder for me.
With technology now allowing me to open many many windows and tabs at the same time, I am surfing a LOT more!
I spend more time listening to internet French channels (for free!) than I do at SCS - I turn on French TV first thing whenever I turn on the computer, then turn the speakers up almost to full volume (if I go away from the computer) so that I can hear it from anywhere in the house, and only turn it off right before I turn off the computer. I also spend a huge amount of time on email and on Wetcanvas (kind of like an SCS for artists) and on Doctissimo (another forum for general stuff, only in French). I also spend huge amounts of time on YouTube, listening to French people sing or watching other people watercolour. If I donated to all these sites based on the time I spent on them or how much enrichment they bring (tons), I'd need to work massive amounts of overtime AND get a second job. But then I'd have no time left to spend on the computer. :mrgreen:
I love the DD gallery, the instant uploads, and feeling that I am giving a little to a site that gives me SO much! I have another online gallery but the site has more advertising and also sells product. SCS isn't selling any paper/stamps/embellishments....just providing a supportive community.
In the beginning, it was all about helping the Nolta family defray the expenses for an ever-expanding site. The DD gallery was a small thank you for those who were able to make a financial contribution. Later, recognizing that the DD gallery was a nice extra, but maybe not relevant to everyone, we added instant uploads as a perk. Lately, we've been brainstorming more ways to add value to what you get when you support the site. We have a ton of ideas, and hope to bring 'em to reality hopefully at the beginning of the year. I'm saying it *out loud* so we'll have to stick to it!
Fan Club subscriptions have been and continue to be a big part of the site. I don't know exact numbers, but am pretty sure that along with advertising revenue. . .it keeps the site alive. No matter who pays those gargantuan bills for the servers and the hosting and bandwidth, there are still expenses involved. I'll see if Daven can get in here and say something, too.
Thank you, Elaine and everyone for sharing your thoughts with us. We appreciate hearing from you!
Thank you. I appreciate this. If YOU say that Fan Club memberships are necessary to keep the site alive, that is good enough for me.
I will renew! (sung to the tune of "I will survive!!").
__________________ Dear Paperlicious is my blog...with a series on how I'm learning to improve my cardmaking by studying others.
I just renewed my subscription to the Fan Club, but I honestly have to say that I was considering just letting it lapse.
I feel that the site is now a money maker (If it isn't, then some one's not doing something right!), and the perks of the DD Gallery and instant uploads just aren't that important to me any longer.
I've always just looked at it as $2 per month is definitely more than a reasonable donation to support something I believe in, use/gain information from, and derive a great deal of enjoyment and entertainment in being a part of.
Quote:
I joined when SCS was still fairly young and growing and felt they needed the financial support. That's no longer the case since the site has been sold.
I feel that those of us who pay are really getting short-changed. I've long felt that everyone should pay for the privilege of up-loading. If that were the case, the membership fee could be lower for everyone, and cards in the gallery would have a chance to be seen and not lost in the huge volume of daily uploads.
I feel better, having said my piece. Let the fireworks begin!
I don't know any website that does not need the financial support of its members, regardless of who is at the top of the food chain. Even with ad revenues, there are employees to pay, like Daven, software developers, graphic design artists, and other behind-the-scenes individuals who keep the site up and running 24/7 (or as close to it as possible, given that sometimes stuff happens beyond their control), as well as server upgrades and other technical equipment, the ever-increasing bandwidth consumed by users, etc., etc., etc.
On the flip side, I can also understand, however, why some might feel like their donation subsidizes too many of the wonderful features of the site for others who choose not to support it, for whatever reason. And, I can't argue that one. However, I also know that NameMedia has mentioned they are exploring ideas for more Fan Club Membership enhancements.; meaning, that those who do support the site will receive increased perks and benefits.
As far as the high volume of daily uploads, and cards not being seen, everybody's reasons for uploading differ vastly:
Many archive their work, or share simply for the joy and pleasure in sharing; being, or having their creations noticed or seen is not the objective of their uploading.
In either event, this place dear to me. It will always have my unfailing support; the heart of SCS remains in Daven, Jenn, Beate, the moderators who volunteer every day, and the DD who donate their services tirelessly.
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
as someone who currently is not a member of the Fan club and currently is not debating whether to join:
if I had to pay to upload my cards..I wouldn't, simple as that. the whole whopping five minute..if that... between when I upload and when I get my "your upload has been approved" email is worth the price I pay..which is nothing. the only reason I upload, honestly, is to have a secondary backup in case my computer dies and I lose my photo album. I certainly am not qualified to call myself in any way shape or form a decent card maker. I make for my family and for the RAK group.
I get plenty of inspiration from the free access galleries, I don't feel a burning desire to view galleries of people who are about 500 times more creative , experienced and crafty than I am and could never in a dozen years hope to duplicate their efforts.
Honestly, I think I WOULD pay $24/year to access the entire site as it is now, especially the SU galleries. But I don't miss the DD galleries and the minimal delay in uploading my admittedly inferior cards is not a deal breaker to me. BUT if I were to come across this place today for the first time and be told I had to pay to access even a sneak preview of what was available..I would move on to another site.
Offering a free trial is more than fair. 24 hours of access won't break the bank and you may find that many people who otherwise would not have spent the money up front now feel it is worth the price.
the economy being as it is, more and more peopleare having to budget more carefully.. and for some even $2 a month is untenable.
I love the DD gallery, the instant uploads, and feeling that I am giving a little to a site that gives me SO much! I have another online gallery but the site has more advertising and also sells product. SCS isn't selling any paper/stamps/embellishments....just providing a supportive community.
An excellent, and well-articulated point! ;)
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
Back in 1999, I was invited to my first StampinUp! party. I was instantly hooked. In 2004, I was introduced to this community. I've always been somewhat crafty but...
Growing up, I was in the shadow of my dear mother and dear little brother who are so artistic! They can draw, paint whatever and I never felt artistic in any way. Since I discovered this wonderful site, I have learned so much about art. While in no way can I compare to the wonderful artists I have enjoyed learning from here, I do have so much more confidence in my own limited artistic abilities. I feel like an artist now! And that feeling means so much to me. I have been a fan club member here for a couple of years now and absolutely know with all my being that it is the right thing for me to do. I am so excited to see what else is in store for fan club members!
Hmmm, how much would you pay to have access to SCS? That is how I look at it. I love this community and would be horrified if I no longer had access to it. I know it is a free site but I have always chosen to support it by being a member of the fan club. That is how I give back a small amount for the huge learning benefits I have received from SCS. No matter how large this site gets it will always need the support of its community. That's my two cents for all it's worth.
I agree. I spend a lot of my free time on SCS and would be beyond sad if the site went away. I think the current price for the DD fan club is well worth all the time and inspiration I receive from the site and I don't mind paying to support the site in the hopes that it will always be around. I used to buy craft magazines before I found SCS now I get a lot more for my money through SCS. I rarely buy a magazine any more. I also enjoy the instant uploads so I will be renewing my Fan Club membership when it's due next month.
After reading all these, I'm subscribing. I'm curious to know what's next!!! And I know my art has improved just from seeing all the great artist here, and getting the comments on my own work. How could that not be worth 7 cents a day???
Personally, I live on this site daily. I find it hard to get through a day without checking this site. Many of you pay $5 or upward for your Starbucks, I figure my fix here on Splitcoast only cost me 7 cents a day. Here's another thing to consider for my money: I have a gallery on this site that has over 1,000 cards in it. I don't have to use my own computers' memory to hold those files. That's worth something to me. I'm not real computer lit, so not sure how all this works, I'm just glad to have my file here easy to access with many others at the click of a mouse!!! I can't understand why so many of you think you are not getting something grand for your money!!! 7 cents a day? You spend more than your toilet paper for that???
__________________ LizThe joy of the LORD is my strength.Right Brain Madness --My blogProud member of the redDivasKSS certified multi-step stamperFan Club member since 2004
I barely look at the DD gallery because, as a number of you have stated, most of the gals that i like to stalk have blogs... i check in on the 15th of the month to see who the new dirty girls are, and then i go on with my day..
this day in age with blogs and whatnot, i don't see a special gallery as much of a perk when we get to see so much great art every day. (i usually have about 100 new blog posts from my favourite ladies on my google reader every day.. so that's like a new DD gallery a day!)
i renewed for the instant uploads.. i don't upload here as often as i used to, but it's a real pain in the arse to have to wait for my photos to be approved.
__________________
{Gallery}{Blog}
I design for: Stampendous!, There She Goes, Technique Tuesday,
SRM Stickers and Deconstructed Sketches.
Splitcoast Dirty Dozen Alumni VSN Go to Girl Pretty, Pretty Princess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherryLC05
I don't really view the DD Gallery that much, but I like that I can if I want to. I just feel that $2 a month is not that much for all the happiness this site brings me. I have made many friends here and everyday I learn something new. SCS is my therapy, entertainment, and social outlet. I don't know where else you can get all that for so little $$. I am glad SCS makes money because that means it will be here for a long time. AND I am sure as the site continues to grow financially they will add more features.
JMO- I am happy to pay it.
Exactly what I was going to say, Sherry
Plus, the therapy bill would be MUCH more than $24/year if it werent for SCS;)
It is always interesting to me to read threads like this and see the different perspectives! My mother taught me that is what makes the world go 'round and I truly believe that. For me personally, I stalked SCS for about 6 months before even joining, due to work and other things I would check in when I could. Once I joined, I ended up coming here almost every day as I learned more about the site and all of the information in the forum threads. I also encountered wonderful people who share all kinds of information and links to blogs with incredible tutuorials. I uploaded a few cards, but thoroughly enjoyed looking daily at the new cards posted. Then I stumbled on a thread about subscribing and then shortly after the annoucement about the sale of the site. Ultimately, I decided that even though I may not have time to do the challenges on the 15th of each month, I can always do them in my spare time. As to the dd, I have browsed some of the stuff, but it was not the primary reason I paid my money. I have had mag subscriptions previously and not learned even half as much from them, so the $25 I paid to be able to keep coming to this site and learning even more than I already have. If I make some cyber friends along the way and get a chance to meet a few in person some day, even better! But the main reason was to pay back for a site that has already enriched my card making with more knowledge than I could have gotten in a couple of years worth of mags, and some very nice people on top of that.
Rachael
For those who are NOT fan club members, would you pay for the privilege of uploading? Would you pay for the privilege of VIEWING the main gallery?
Nope. Not a chance. There are too many other scrapbooking and general craft sites with card ideas for free, and the uploading is free. I won't pay to do something here that I can do for free elsewhere. I just like to look at the SU gallery here so I can see ideas for specific stamp sets I have, but I wouldn't pay for that.
I am still in my first year of membership...I am also a first year SU demo.
I literally stumbled upon this site and wandered around for a few weeks...then I joined the Fan Club. Since that time, I have learned much (love those tutorials) and, hopefully, made some friends. I have participated in some swaps and have started a small gallery (I really need to upload soon - I have about 15 pictures).
I am on this site everyday - I try to check in 2 -3 -4 times per day.
I was a little scared when Daren announced that the site had been sold...but knew enough that when he and Jen said everything would be alright...it would be.
So, because of everything above, I'll be renewing!
As previous posters have mentioned - it's less than some subscriptions to craft magaizines....AND....when you can't sleep and it's 3:00 AM there is always someone here.....so you don't feel so lonely!!!!
I get soooo much from this site and I am so grateful for it. For me, the opportunity to pay back somehow gives me the warm fuzzies. Kind of like a thank you for creating this site.
Just because SCS is making money now, it doesn't make me feel like I shouldn't be paying for the Fan Club. I love to see the inspiration of the Dirty Dozen and to have the ability to get some wonderful patterns and templates in the Fan Club forum.
Plus, this site has unleashed a creative side in me that I never knew existed. And I am able to talk to others that have the same obsession/passion about papercrafting. And to me, that is priceless.
I don't pay for the fan club. While the DD gallery seems like it would be cool to look at I'd rather buy more stamping stuff with the money. And, since I have a stamping blog if they ever started charging a fee to upload I would just stop uploading. I love that anyone can upload on the site. Some people don't have the extra money in their stamping budget to pay for fan membership. And, fan club fee don't pay all the operating costs so those that pay are not simply paying for all those that don't.
Looks like the responses from folks who've said they wouldn't pay to upload to a personal gallery prove that it would indeed reduce the number of images that have to be processed daily.
__________________ Rachel Proud SU! demo and Sci-Fi Geek!
My Stampin' Up! blog "I'm a time traveler -- I point and laugh at archaeologists." 10th Doctor, "Silence in the Library"
The reasons that I am a member are simple.... You pay about as much here as you would for a magazine subscription... you can get more inspiration here from one day of uploads than you could from an entire year from a magazine publication.
Love the forums - I learn a lot from them or I get to express my opinion (like this thread)
I love the DD gallery and I hope to have the honor of being part of it someday.
__________________ KAT
Life is not about weathering the storm - It's about dancing in the rain!
Oh all of you have good points. If it wasn't for this site i don't no what i would do. It is my break! To sit back and enjoy something i do. I get so many ideas, downloads and people out to help one another. My life has been so busy helping others for the last 3 years, this is such a joy. I glady pay such a small fee, so worth it!! Just think if we didn't have this site?
I guess there are two issues here. The OP's issue is whether there is sufficient value to being a member of the Fan Club. The other issue is whether to donate at all.
With respect to the second issue, there seems to be the assumption that SCS needs the donations to stay alive. If I thought SCS needed Fan Club dues to stay alive, I'd sign up again.
For me it was different before the site was sold. It was Daven and Tracy and their employees and I felt an obligation to support them. I figured that they really needed the $$ to keep SCS growing and to support themselves and I was thrilled to donate.
Now it is owned by a big company and I just assume that the site is profitable as is. I have no idea whether the Fan Club dues are necessary to keep SCS as is, or just gravy on top of substantial advertising revenue. It is possible that I am wrong. If so, I would love to know that.
I listen to the radio a lot, but I don't donate to the companies that own the stations. I assume that the revenue from advertising is sufficient.
It has nothing to do with the quality of SCS. It rocks.
I just wanted to chime in a bit...I don't see any problem with who owns the site now and definately think they should or should have made a profit. I have been a member for couple years and just recently was able to join the Fan Club. I understand that at the begining the fees were to keep SCS running, however at this point that is not needed. So when I paid in July(?) I was so very excited to see what I had been missing. Well I quickly came to the conclusion that I really was not missing anything! So like others have said, times have changed and maybe the benefits should also. I think the eaiest way would be, which has been suggested, to only allow Fan Clubers upload in the gallery. Otherwise there will be more and more not renewing. I don't think I would have joined if I new what I was getting in advance. Not because they don't deserve it but becase funds are tight and I half to justify what I spend my money on, and in this case I can't. JMO!!
Here is the thing though, if all the sudden you were charging to upload, there would not be as much diversity in cards/projects. I do agree with one other person's view that maybe you could give them limited gallery space and if they found that they needed more than they could subscribe to get it. I love this site and have been a member for years now. I'll be more than happy to pay my little fee to show my support.
Before any wild rumors circulate, I want to pop back in and say that I don't see Splitcoast requiring a paid membership to upload and share in the gallery.
I do know that NameMedia wants to add more benefits to being a Fan Club member (it's been said here in this thread, and in the big thread in Site Suggestions, too) . . . it's just a matter of getting the big stuff done first, like improving site performance.
now I would seriously reconsider joining the fan club if more perks were offered. as it stands right now.. the only benefit I can see is instant approval( not a deal breaker for me) and an expanded gallery. I get plenty of inspiration from the stuff in the freely accessible galleries, so again, not enough incentive. I also quite enjoy the weekly free tutorials we get although In most instances I do not have the equipment necessary to do half of them.
I guess it would depend on what extra perks the Fan Club would be willing to extend to those who paid the dues.
My subscription recently expired and I have yet to renew it. I'm still trying to decide if I should.
That decision aside, what upsets me is the fact that I can no longer view the Fan Club galleries that I DID pay for! :mad: I wish each month's gallery was password protected and only members would know the password. This way, even if your subscription runs out, you can always go back and look at the galleries you did pay to see.
I agree with this, I wish I could go back and look at the galleries I DID pay for. As of right now I simply can't afford to renew and wish I could at least go back and see the ones during my subscription. But I like the DD gallery and when I have some extra $ I plan on subbing again.
I've been reading all the posts in this thread, and think the majority of people feel the same way I do. SCS is worth far more than the .07 cents a day a membership costs. I personally don't decide to support something based on whether it *needs* the money, I think if I gain benefit from it, I owe my support. Aside from all the perks of becoming a paying member, this is a community, and a community that spawned from a few people willing to give of themselves and risk their financial future to create. That is enough for my continued support!
No fireworks, no flames.
