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I have a question?? If you are not allowed to sell current items on Ebay then how come it's being allowed? I will be a demo on Jan. 7th and this scares me to death. People are paying alot more on Ebay for this stuff. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I know there has got to be Demos having there friends and family sell this stuff on Ebay for them. I'm not stupid. How else would the Sincere Salutations set get on Ebay so fast. There are alot of demos getting rich quick while some of us are working our *sses off trying to make a dollar. It's not fair. We all have to take a stand and do something about this. If SU would happen to change there policy on selling current merchandise to: No one is allowed to sell current merchandise. Then would Ebay pull it all off?? C'mon ladies do you have any ideas on how to stop this nonsense and to make it fair for all of us??? Let's all pull together and find someway to stop this madness!!
I have emailed SU Demo Support when I've noticed current stuff for sale on ebay. I think this is all we can do and to tell our customers, to always check with me before buying SU stuff on ebay. It's sad that there are those who are breaking the rules, when most of us follow them.
I always believe that what comes around goes around. And I just worry about what I have control over.
As a non-demo, new stamper, I am amazed that people are paying more than full price for current SU items. I can only imagine they don't know how else to get the items.
I saw one seller who put in his description of ink pads (!) "You normally have to host a workshop to get this item..." and that is simply untrue. I've never hosted a workshop and I have tons of SU! stuff. These sellers are being misleading.
I think maybe education is a big key here. Maybe there's some way to inform potential customers that not only can they get the stuff cheaper and easier, but they can get help with using it! Plus great incentives like the sale-a-bration! People buying $100's worth of stuff on ebay aren't getting any free sets!
So, anyway, I know you are concerned with getting demos and others to conform to the rules, but I thought you (meaning SU people, not you in particular ) might also think about how to decrease the demand for these overpriced products.
Anyway, I know this issue is being discussed constantly on here. I just wanted to add my(non demo) 2 cents.
I think part of the problem right now is that SU! is shut down for the holidays, so there is no one to monitor e-bay. The people sneaking their stuff on are doing just that- sneaking it on. (While the cats away the mice will play.) When you have a concern, e-mail SU! and give them as nmuch info as you can so they can track it down.
__________________ live well, laugh often, love much
We all have to take a stand and do something about this.
Use the email this auction to a friend link and send it to: [email protected]
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If SU would happen to change there policy on selling current merchandise to: No one is allowed to sell current merchandise. Then would Ebay pull it all off??
Stampin' Up! has to be the one to make the decision to pull the auction. Selling stamps isn't illegal and there's nothing that eBay can do by itself. The only reason demos can't do it because they signed a legally binding contract agreeing that they wouldn't (among other things).
I doubt that Stampin' Up! would ever make it unallowable (is that even a word?) for customers to sell their current sets.
I understand your outrage, but you have to do what you can (report the auctions to DS) and let the rest go. Focus your energy on your own business, if you can.
There is a link on this site (yes, splitcoast) that goes directly to ebay. I noticed it at the top of the "gallery" page in the little box called "ads by google". I clicked on it and found many retired sets (fine) but also many current catalog items.
I'll offer my opinion/experience:
When I was first introduced to stampin up it was a friend of a friend of a friend who sold it. I had no way to get a hold of her easily. So, being I'm the computer person I am, I went to ebay, WOW!! I didn't have a current catty either so I was unaware of prices. Nor, did I know that demos selling current things on ebay was against the rules. I was actually introduced to SCS through ebay, yep, someone had in their auctions to check out SCS for samples made with a set, used mind you ;-) From that day forward I was hooked and learned a lot. Mind you, it never made it right for a demo to sell her current sets on the bay BUT I had no idea I was supporting something that was wrong. I will also be signing up to be a demo in Jan/Feb and will "push" my product ;-) so friends/coworkers/family know to come to me, not ebay (for current sets anyway) as I can probably sell it cheaper than they'd get it on there anyway. But like another poster stated, "What goes around, comes around!" That's pretty much my motto for life :-) :-)
Sunshine :-)
There is a link on this site (yes, splitcoast) that goes directly to ebay. I noticed it at the top of the "gallery" page in the little box called "ads by google". I clicked on it and found many retired sets (fine) but also many current catalog items.
Daven is supposed to be taking care of this. Believe me, he doesn't want that ad here anymore than any of us do. It's unfortunately part of the Google program used to get benefits from having ads on our site.
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There's another thread on this from earlier this month. --- PUHLEASE, let's not start it again!
This conversation comes up regularly, it seems to be unavoidable since it is an extreme hot button for a lot of people here.
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Originally Posted by justheather
Stampin' Up! has to be the one to make the decision to pull the auction. Selling stamps isn't illegal and there's nothing that eBay can do by itself. The only reason demos can't do it because they signed a legally binding contract agreeing that they wouldn't (among other things).
I doubt that Stampin' Up! would ever make it unallowable (is that even a word?) for customers to sell their current sets.
I agree SU will probably never do it, but I wish they would. I mean, if Creative Memories can, I think SU should be able to too. I've heard of many a case where CM went in and shut down non-demo auctions of CM stuff. It would be great if SU could do the same since one can never tell if someone is a demo or not.
Well I'm not a Demo yet. Not until January 7th. I didn't mean to start a thread to start a ruckus and receive negative posts & put downs. I didn't realize there had been other posts besides the Sincere Salutations post. I just thought maybe the people that wanted to could all get together and figure out an idea to stop this.
Michelle ~ I'm sorry you've received put downs, sometimes it's hard to read emotions in a post. Ebay is a real tough issue and sometimes it's a pit of quicksand. Believe me, I've had to pull myself out of the pit in the distant past over the whole Ebay thing. Don't worry about your post, you did nothing wrong.
Not wanting to step on anyone's toes - my opinon is for what is is worth.....
I agree that SU demos should not be selling current sets on Ebay-seeing that they have signed an agreement NOT TO and making a larger profit than normal - it is not fair to the demos who do not - hence- that would be SU's responsibility to stop them from doing so in whatever manner that they see fit - Anyone who is paying more than the SU retail selling price are crazy - and they risk not even getting the item which they paid for - yes there are dishonest ebay sellers out there, my only thought is that they have no SU demo in there area............
As for non-demos selling their current sets on ebay - neither Ebay nor SU can say anything about it - once a person buys the merchandise - it legally becomes theirs and they can see fit to use and/or dispose of it in a the manner they see fit.
I doubt that Stampin' Up! would ever make it unallowable (is that even a word?) for customers to sell their current sets.
I agree SU will probably never do it, but I wish they would. I mean, if Creative Memories can, I think SU should be able to too. I've heard of many a case where CM went in and shut down non-demo auctions of CM stuff. It would be great if SU could do the same since one can never tell if someone is a demo or not.[/quote]
That's interesting. I immediately thought that would never happen. But now I'm thinking, if CM can why not SU? Very interesting.
I have decided that I will report any one that I see selling current stuff. But I refuse to let myself get upset about it anymore. It's not worth it. Plus, I don't like the idea that one of those eBay sellers (more probably than that) is a member here and watches these threads. She sent a smart *** eamil to one of our fellow SCSers. I don't want to give her the satisfactions of getting me upset.
As for eBay, I can't fault them for what bad demo's are doing. Millions of items on eBay, how can they possibly focus on one company. But, they do have a little thing where you can report illegal auctions or whatever, can't think of a better word for it. I have done this. One of their user agreements says that you can't sell something on there that YOU are legally obligated not to. I would think that the demo agreement would count as legally obligating you not to do this. Maybe if when we reported these auctions to eBay as well as SU maybe they will sit up and listen. 20,000+ members should catch their attention. I know that when someone posted on SCS about the Fellowes tape spinner as a ink pad holder, someone from Fellowes sat up and wondered why there was such a mad rush for those items all of a sudden. They even made a post about it on here. So maybe try that.
__________________ Angie
Mother of three wonderful children (Brayton-17 months, Brianna- 5 & Kyle-eight) and one grown man (my DH).
I really don't see how any company can stop the selling of their products on ebay - As a demo/consultant you have signed an agreement not to sell your products on ebay but as a customer I have not signed anything and will not sign anything - I do not "usually" sell anything SU but if I were in a bind and needed to I would....I would go to ebay.......
As a demo your biggest concern should be those that are selling tons and tons on ebay (hidelee for example) - you know if she is not a demo she is inkahoots with someone who is.... and secondly if I were a demo I would not waste my time looking at what is for sell on ebay - spend your time keeping your customers happy and they will not go to the bay to buy...they will come to you -
I am not aiming this at any one person but I do think that there is a ton of time spent here on things that we can not change and/or do anything about......inform your customers and offer them incentives to buy from you and you'll do well....
Happy New Year to all!!
Shelley
__________________
Shelley
The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.
I agree SU will probably never do it, but I wish they would. I mean, if Creative Memories can, I think SU should be able to too. I've heard of many a case where CM went in and shut down non-demo auctions of CM stuff. It would be great if SU could do the same since one can never tell if someone is a demo or not.
That's interesting. I immediately thought that would never happen. But now I'm thinking, if CM can why not SU? Very interesting.
[quote]
As a former CMC I know that they can stop auctions if you are a consultant but if you are not and you are selling something that is CM they CAN NOT stop your auction unless they can prove that you are a CMC or have been within a certain time frame (think it is up to 6 months after deactivation) if an auction is pulled and it is not a CMC then they are in violation of your rights.....
__________________
Shelley
The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.
I really don't see how any company can stop the selling of their products on ebay - As a demo/consultant you have signed an agreement not to sell your products on ebay but as a customer I have not signed anything and will not sign anything - I do not "usually" sell anything SU but if I were in a bind and needed to I would....I would go to ebay.......
Happy New Year to all!!
Shelley
I wish the person who had their CM auction pulled was still around. Maybe if a separate post was out there, she might raise her hand. There is something about CM and their agreement with eBay that allows them to pull any CM auction regardless of status (ie demo or customer).
Just like the Angel policy prohibits certain uses of basically any stamp, a sellers agreement or order form can be made to limit disposability of an item. All it takes is the right wording on the order form. At this point, I have no problem with SU doing that, but if things got bad, I might feel differently.
the current stuff for sale doesn't bother me as much as the free gift did. that really itched me. I read somewhere one of the sellers said they got it from a demo "friend" who didn't want hers. So why did she give it to someone who would sell it on ebay...and not want it? Sorry, sounds fishy to me.
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. As someone says, what comes around goes around. My customers know me and trust me. I don't think they would go to ebay for SU stuff anyway because I give them so much attention and support. I hope so anyway.
Try not to let it frighten you. It's really beyond your control.
I'll offer my opinion/experience:
When I was first introduced to stampin up it was a friend of a friend of a friend who sold it. I had no way to get a hold of her easily. So, being I'm the computer person I am, I went to ebay, WOW!! I didn't have a current catty either so I was unaware of prices. Nor, did I know that demos selling current things on ebay was against the rules. I was actually introduced to SCS through ebay, yep, someone had in their auctions to check out SCS for samples made with a set, used mind you ;-) From that day forward I was hooked and learned a lot. Mind you, it never made it right for a demo to sell her current sets on the bay BUT I had no idea I was supporting something that was wrong. I will also be signing up to be a demo in Jan/Feb and will "push" my product ;-) so friends/coworkers/family know to come to me, not ebay (for current sets anyway) as I can probably sell it cheaper than they'd get it on there anyway. But like another poster stated, "What goes around, comes around!" That's pretty much my motto for life :-) :-)
Sunshine :-)
OMG,This is almost my story too, but now that I am a Demo I am more informed. My feelings/actions on this are: First, keep SU informed on anything that I feel is in violation on ebay. And from what I have seen here you guys are on top of things and that is a positive action. SU then has the information to do what they wish to do with it. Our part is then done. Secondly, I try to inform everyone that I know and have them tell everyone that they know so on and so on. That they can get a better deal if the call me or go to the SU website and find a Demo close to them. It's all about getting the word out to the ebay buyer (that was once me) that this is wrong and when you buy from a Demo you get all that she has to offer with a personal touch, classes and help when you need it. Positive actions from all of us will snowball into our customers being informed and passing it on. Sometimes actions speak louder than words on a thread so go out and inform the ebay buyer that we are the better deal :!:
There I have said it :!: Don't get me wrong I know we all have to vent this is a very sensitive subject. It was at convention this year.
Just like the Angel policy prohibits certain uses of basically any stamp, a sellers agreement or order form can be made to limit disposability of an item. All it takes is the right wording on the order form. At this point, I have no problem with SU doing that, but if things got bad, I might feel differently.
But the Angel policy is about copyright. Reselling stamps doesn't fall under copyright...
Just like the Angel policy prohibits certain uses of basically any stamp, a sellers agreement or order form can be made to limit disposability of an item. All it takes is the right wording on the order form. At this point, I have no problem with SU doing that, but if things got bad, I might feel differently.
But the Angel policy is about copyright. Reselling stamps doesn't fall under copyright...
You missed the point I was making. My point was that the Angel policy is on the back of the order form to prohibit misuse of the stamps. You can add a clause on the back of the order form prohibitting resale of any SU item in any form. Because the stamps are copywrited and the Angel policy prohibits electronic reproduction in any form ~ including scanning and posting on the internet ~ a seller is in violation when doing so. The back of the order form can be worded to prohibit any picture of the stamps, be it the sticker sheet or the rubber, to be scanned and shown on the internet.
But the Angel policy is about copyright. Reselling stamps doesn't fall under copyright...You missed the point I was making. My point was that the Angel policy is on the back of the order form to prohibit misuse of the stamps. You can add a clause on the back of the order form prohibitting resale of any SU item in any form. Because the stamps are copywrited and the Angel policy prohibits electronic reproduction in any form ~ including scanning and posting on the internet ~ a seller is in violation when doing so. The back of the order form can be worded to prohibit any picture of the stamps, be it the sticker sheet or the rubber, to be scanned and shown on the internet.
That's a great idea!! I know myself with passed ebay dealings. My DH buys alot of Hi Performance boat parts on ebay. If we can't see a pic we won't buy it!! It won't cut it out completely, but it would cut it down considerably. Send the idea to SU please!!!
Okay, what's really scary is they are only offering 3 sets which means they are keeping one. I'm betting, though, this one won't fly off the shelves any time soon. Although, they are offering a payment plan? WTH is up with that?
No, I understand what you're trying to say, but I'm not sure they're legally allowed to control what you do with their products after you buy them.
Take software, for example:
You can buy a copy of software. You can sell your copy of the software (the company can not say that you can't sell what you've bought...in this case a license to use their software). You are not allowed to make copies of the software and sell it. You cannot reverse engineer the code to make your own copy for sale. Throughout the process, the software company retains the copyright on the software itself.
In stamps, you can buy and sell the stamps themselves, but the images remain under the copyright of Stampin' Up! (or whichever company created them). The images and Angel policy fall under copyright protection...the physical stamps don't have the same protection.
I mean, it would be nice if SU yanked all of the current demo auctions...I think we would all like that, but I don't think they're legally allowed to not allow resale of their stamps.
While I don't like it either, I think we need to accept the fact that SU will sell on ebay. For many folks Ebay is attractive because you can get retired sets, and for current sets, it is easier than purchasing from a demo. Some demos don't take credit cards or paypal and mailing a check is one more step that busy folks don't like to take. Ebay is available 24/7. In addtion, sadly for many, ebay is addictive. Many crafters are impulse buyers, don't want to attend or host parties and don't even want to deal with the back and forth of phone calls or emails. They just like the ease and fun of bidding, just like some folks love the thrill of gambling (go figure).
It is probably heresy to suggest this but if SU put its catalogue online, like TAC, and permitted demos to sell off a website, ebay would lose its appeal and demos would make more money. Most buyers do not know the SU rules and probably would not care if a demo was selling directly on Ebay in violation of them. I suggest lobbying SU to change so that it is easier to sell the product to all those ebay customers!!
permitted demos to sell off a website, ebay would lose its appeal and demos would make more money.
I think that would be a GREAT idea!! I, for one, LOVE to shop on-line and don't want to wait for a party, phone calls, etc. But if SU never goes to that, they won't lose any business from me ;-)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't SU! begin their policy on internet auctions of current stuff b/c some demos were using Ebay as a means to do business instead of doing workshops and one-on-one customer service?
Before I was a demo, I sold some current sets on Ebay. I wasn't trying to scam anyone. DH said that if I wanted to buy new stamps, I had to make my own money. So I sold the sets that I didn't use very often so that I could buy new ones from my demo. I don't think they ever sold for more than they were in the catalog.
I don't think customers should be punished for selling current sets because of a few bad apples.
I am an avid ebayer. I understand the frustration demonstrator's that other demo's are selling on ebay and "cheating" the other demonstrators. I have a demonstrator that I spend on average $150-200 per month with and I supplement those buys with purchases on ebay. If SU came up with a no resale no matter what clause I would stop buying SU items. Once I have purchased something it is mine to do with as I wish. That's like saying I can never sell my car again because there are dealerships trying to sell the same cars. It's just not a realistic solution.
__________________ "When you feel dog tired at night, it may be because you've growled all day long." - Unknown
Please, no flames for this but is stampin up really motivated to stop the ebay business? I can see where it negatively impacts demonstrators but the bottom line is that stampin up is still making money by selling these products. I have seen prior threads about people reporting ebay sellers but has su really taken away their demo status?
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Originally Posted by angeldoxie
I am an avid ebayer. I understand the frustration demonstrator's that other demo's are selling on ebay and "cheating" the other demonstrators. I have a demonstrator that I spend on average $150-200 per month with and I supplement those buys with purchases on ebay. If SU came up with a no resale no matter what clause I would stop buying SU items. Once I have purchased something it is mine to do with as I wish. That's like saying I can never sell my car again because there are dealerships trying to sell the same cars. It's just not a realistic solution.
wingnut137 wrote:
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I don't think customers should be punished for selling current sets because of a few bad apples.
Lisa
Kymber_stamps wrote:
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My point was that the Angel policy is on the back of the order form to prohibit misuse of the stamps. You can add a clause on the back of the order form prohibitting resale of any SU item in any form. Because the stamps are copywrited and the Angel policy prohibits electronic reproduction in any form ~ including scanning and posting on the internet ~ a seller is in violation when doing so. The back of the order form can be worded to prohibit any picture of the stamps, be it the sticker sheet or the rubber, to be scanned and shown on the internet.
angeldoxie and wingnut137: re: bolded and italized part: I don't think kymbers was saying that no one should be able to sell their current merchandise. I think she was saying that no one should be allowed to produce a picture of it in any manner in order to sell current merchandise.
The company that produces these stamps have the copywrite on the image so they can put stipulations on its use. They cannot tell you what to do with the actual item, but they can restrict the use of their copywritten image.
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Originally Posted by Kymbers_Stampin
Okay, what's really scary is they are only offering 3 sets which means they are keeping one. I'm betting, though, this one won't fly off the shelves any time soon. Although, they are offering a payment plan? WTH is up with that?
I saw that they were offering all 48 ink pads plus 3 of the SAB sets. True, as someone else pointed out, that there is no hostess benefits with an ebay order this large.
How much are all 48 ink pads in $US in the current catty? In my CAD catty it adds up to $307.80 (+ hs&t); so that's worth at least a level one hostess set and $30 CAD worth of free merchandise.
Wonder how we/SU! can let people know that buying current merchandise is soooo not worth it on ebay.
I have seen prior threads about people reporting ebay sellers but has su really taken away their demo status?
Yes. According to Jerry Day (the President and COO of Stampin' Up!) they have terminated several demonstrators. It is very difficult for them to prove as most demonstrators are selling through other people, making the actual demonstrators hard to locate.
If SU came up with a no resale no matter what clause I would stop buying SU items. Once I have purchased something it is mine to do with as I wish. That's like saying I can never sell my car again because there are dealerships trying to sell the same cars. It's just not a realistic solution.
I agree 100% ! As a customer, I will not be told what I can or can not do with an item that I purchased. I have never personally sold anything on ebay, but I would still stop purchasing SU! if a clause like that was added to their policy. With thousands of dollars in supplies, eventually some things will need to go because I no longer like/use them or to make room for new.
I have a question?? If you are not allowed to sell current items on Ebay then how come it's being allowed? I will be a demo on Jan. 7th and this scares me to death. People are paying alot more on Ebay for this stuff. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I know there has got to be Demos having there friends and family sell this stuff on Ebay for them. I'm not stupid. How else would the Sincere Salutations set get on Ebay so fast. There are alot of demos getting rich quick while some of us are working our *sses off trying to make a dollar. It's not fair. We all have to take a stand and do something about this. If SU would happen to change there policy on selling current merchandise to: No one is allowed to sell current merchandise. Then would Ebay pull it all off?? C'mon ladies do you have any ideas on how to stop this nonsense and to make it fair for all of us??? Let's all pull together and find someway to stop this madness!!
My suggestion would be to not focus on it. Focus instead on building your business. Positive energy always feels better . Folks will always try to get away with stuff on ebay. Always. Be it a customer selling our stuff for a demo friend, a customer selling too much she order, or a demo violating their agreement . Positively building your business relationships with your customers will reap better rewards for you then dwelling on the ebay problem.
__________________ Seattlejo
aka "The Cruise Director" [email protected]
Please, no flames for this but is stampin up really motivated to stop the ebay business? I can see where it negatively impacts demonstrators but the bottom line is that stampin up is still making money by selling these products.
Good point. I work in the mortgage industry where sometimes people do things just to make a 'deal' work (within reason, of course). In the end, the customer, the sales person and the companies involved in are all happy. Everybody got what they wanted in the end. Have any of you wanted to refinance and needed the appraisal to come in at a certain level? Let's see, it's probably first decided how much money is wanted out of your property (IE: how much cash in hand do you need for that home improvement or to pay off a debt) and from there, an approximate value is figured and the appraiser tries to get as close as possible to that value so that everyone is happy. It's not just the appraisal - it's every step involved - including which credit bureau to pull to try to get the best credit score so that the customer gets the lowest interest rate. -- The same sort of thing would hold true with Stampin Up. In the end, if there is stuff sold off of ebay, they are happy because they are selling more products. That will carry to the net profit at the end of the year. Sometimes companies may choose to look the other way because they are also thinking of stockholders, the economy and a whole slew of other things. Is there anything Stampin' Up could do - YES..... But they are also thinking of a much bigger scope.
PREVIOUSLY POSTED:
"The same sort of thing would hold true with Stampin Up. In the end, if there is stuff sold off of ebay, they are happy because they are selling more products. That will carry to the net profit at the end of the year."
RESPONSE:
In all reality - they are LOSING profits - because SU only collects the money for the initial sale of the merchandise - any resale of that original purchased mdse they do not profit - the only way that they profit is in the first sale of the mdse - but in the MASSIVE amounts of SU items being listed and sold on ebay it is keeping the SU name alive and well - which leads to more revenue for the company - if they received revenue off the resale of the mdse - than they would see a higher Yearly total sales - hence I do not see them trying to stop all Ebay sales of their mdse!
I just want to ask you all to be careful with each post on this topic, please.
This subject geos round and round and round. I have posted to nearly every thread about Ebay this same thing, Do what you can to stop those who are violating the SU demo rules, Consider that perhaps they are not a demo and lastly, Peace and Goodwill to all...
Oh and by the way, go post some positive comments to the Gallery.... I always love that warm feeling when others tell me they like what I am doing and I love how it makes me feel to tell others too!
Current SU stuff on EBAY????
