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Why does anyone else need to share their frustrations with her? That is your place....you were the one CASE'd. I think it should be an issue between you and her - not everyone here on SCS. Even if the girl CASE'd your card knowingly, you airing it out here does nothing positive for this website. There's been so much animosity around here and feathers rustling that it just doesn't feel like a happy place. Giving out her name, website and other info is vindictive. You know you are the one who created the card - you are a very talented stamper and everyone here knows it and appreciates your ideas.
I copycase a lot of things. Some I will use at a workshop, send to my stamp club ladies, or just to send to someone. I don't always remember who I got the card from so I can't mention a specific name, but I will admit that I copied the card. Most of the time my copy isn't exact. Recently, I did completely copy a card I found on another website. Before I uploaded to this site, I checked to make sure it wasn't here also. I did put in the comments that it was a CASE from another site, but didn't put the name because I couldn't remember who made the card. If I see something on the internet that I like, I will usually paste it to powerpoint for future reference without needing to be connected to the internet. So I may copy a card, but don't have the name of the person who made it. But I do try to remember to put that I case'd the card from here or another site.
I don't send many cards for the SU contests because I don't want to send something that I've copied. Lisa, I'm sorry it happened to you.
I hope I haven't offended anyone by not mentioning their name, and I apologize if I have. As others have said, please let me know if I have case'd your card but didn't add your name. (This can be done simply by saying that you are flattered.)
Even if the girl CASE'd your card knowingly, you airing it out here does nothing positive for this website. Carri
For new folks to this site and new folks to stamping, Lesse's situation is educational in the sharing process.
It is unfortuate that this happened, but it may help others to know how hurtful submitting CASED work for exultation/publication is to the designer/creator of the item.
Lisa I am so sorry that this happened to you. You are such a talented stamper and we are all inspired by your work. I just made a one sheet wonder using your coloring technique (and I did give you credit for that and told everyone to check out your cats!!) I am sorry you've been hurt by this!
I do agree with others. CASEing isn't a problem. But taking credit for it (especially for a contest, magazine or with SU!) IS! There is a difference between me saying "OH, I like that card I want to make it, or something similar to it." and Recreating it and submitting it somewhere!
I am going to agree with Carri. Although what this person did was not honorable I don't think it is approriate for us to respond to her about it. It is an issue between her and Lisa and probably best left there. Even though we do sympathize with you Lisa!
I have re-read your post. I believe I took your post out of context. I apologize if this is the case.
I believe this general thread is positive in that it educates folks new to stamping/new to this site in regards that work submitted for publication should be one's own creation, not a creation one copied/cased and wish for a pat on the back by seeing one's name in a magazine.
If your post was in regards to a public flaming via this young lady's email box by SCSers, then my response was inappropriate.
Pm me if you are interested insharing your frustations with her. I will send you the link.
I think it is great that you contacted SU and that they are going to pull the card whether it iwas intentional or not it definantly looks as if it was cased, but I do not see any need for anyone else here on the board to send their comments to her, I understand that this has become a public issue due to the posts but really the issue is with you and the person who cased your idea just the same as it is with anyone else that is cased...I really hope you will think twice about giving out her info to other people especially knowing that you are doing it with an ill intent.
__________________ My avatar is my adorable niece, she makes me smile, thought she might make you smile too!!
Pm me if you are interested insharing your frustations with her. I will send you the link.
I think it is great that you contacted SU and that they are going to pull the card whether it iwas intentional or not it definantly looks as if it was cased, but I do not see any need for anyone else here on the board to send their comments to her, I understand that this has become a public issue due to the posts but really the issue is with you and the person who cased your idea just the same as it is with anyone else that is cased...I really hope you will think twice about giving out her info to other people especially knowing that you are doing it with an ill intent.
You are probably right on this. I will edit my post.
I am going to give what may be an unpopular opinion, so let me start out by saying that I rarely CASE, and if I do, it is from one particular close friend whose work is absolutely to die for, and I usually try to change at least one thing. So what I am about to say is not because I am defensive. I also want to point out I am not condemning anyone for feeling a bit hurt, but think it's important for all of us to take a step back. With that said...
First, I think there are rarely truly original pieces of work. Is it a CASE (for which submission is off limits) if you use the same LO or template but a different stamp set? Is it a CASE if you change only the color combo? What if you use different embellishments but the rest is the same? There are fine lines here, and we are ALL getting ideas from someone else, who got ideas from someone else, who got ideas from someone else... and so on. To claim something as YOURS is very difficult in this art form -- and that ability to share and "steal" ideas precisely what makes me love stamping and make me feel comfortable telling customers that you don't have to be "creative" to create.
Second, I personally don't take the time to send cards into contests at SU or any other publication. Others do. If I were to see a design on Stampers Showcase or on a convention display or in a magazine that I knew was taken from my own swaps or submissions to this or any other site, I would be happy and proud, not offended. After all, that's what the sharing is for, and I don't need my name posted next to the item so I can get "credit" for it. I didn't take the time to submit it, she did. Good for her.
Case in point: I had a card posted on a display at the San Antonio regional couple of weeks ago. I was SOOO excited. My name wasn't anywhere near it. I knew it was mine, the 5-10 people who are my friends that recognized it as a swap I took to last year's convention knew it was mine and that was enough. I didn't look to see whose name was on the back. If someone else had gotten "credit" for it, I still would have known it was mine, my friends would have known, and sure, I might have shared it with a few others, and could even imagine posting here, but my attitude would have been "Isn't it cool. That's MY card. Someone liked my idea enough to make a sample, submit it, and SU loved it too! Isn't it great!!!" Instead of "Hey, that's MY card!!! She stole it from me! I can't believe her name is on it instead of mine! Isn't it awful!" I admit I might instinctively feel a little of the latter, and can certainly understand feeling that way. But I think it is important to look at the glass as half full (or almost all the full), rather than half empty and get angry. I've noticed too many stampers and scrapbookers latelywho get very proprietary about work that they intentionally and knowingly shared with others. The reasonwe post here, submit to magazines, submit to SU, swap, and otherwise share our work is, I hope, not simply to get "credit" or accolades or even awards or cash. I hope the reason why we do it is to SHARE, that is, to allow others to use our our ideas and designs to create things with their own hands and be proud of that. At least that's why I do it.
__________________ Jennifer Henry
Lawyer by day, stamp and scrap addict by night.
I hope the reason why we do it is to SHARE, that is, to allow others to use our our ideas and designs to create things with their own hands and be proud of that. At least that's why I do it.
Pm me if you are interested insharing your frustations with her. I will send you the link.
I think it is great that you contacted SU and that they are going to pull the card whether it iwas intentional or not it definantly looks as if it was cased, but I do not see any need for anyone else here on the board to send their comments to her, I understand that this has become a public issue due to the posts but really the issue is with you and the person who cased your idea just the same as it is with anyone else that is cased...I really hope you will think twice about giving out her info to other people especially knowing that you are doing it with an ill intent.
You are probably right on this. I will edit my post.
Even if the girl CASE'd your card knowingly, you airing it out here does nothing positive for this website. Carri
For new folks to this site and new folks to stamping, Lesse's situation is educational in the sharing process.
It is unfortuate that this happened, but it may help others to know how hurtful submitting CASED work for exultation/publication is to the designer/creator of the item.
I was just about to say the same thing but you worded it so much better. I know better to submit anything that I post but it sure has raised my awareness so that when I CASE for my classes that even if i don't have the name off hand I can say "I got this from a talented gal on SCS" All my ladies are on here anyways so they know where I get them. But as my business grows I may forget to do that so I'm glad of the reminder.
I also don't know the correct "ettiquete". I am a total CASE'r. If I like your card...then I LIKE YOUR CARD and I make it that way. I never have the time to create on my own. So I sort of just got in the habit. But lately I have tried to do more of my own creations.
I did recently CASE a card that sahm_i_am made. I changed the colors and I stamped the hearts before I punched them out. I titled it "sahm_i_am CASE for DH".
If there are new people out there, don't be afraid to share just GIVE CREDIT. Even if you only use part of the idea... give credit that you were inspired by ______.
__________________ Angie
Mother of three wonderful children (Brayton-17 months, Brianna- 5 & Kyle-eight) and one grown man (my DH).
To all of the talented creators and designers on this site: please keep uploading your beautiful artwork to the gallery. So many of us get inspiration from you, and I believe that the majority of us give credit to the originators of the pieces they CASE.
This is such an awesome creative community...I hope that one bad experience doesn't spoil it for the rest of us.
Thanks for listening--
Melanie
__________________ Proud recipient of a University of Wisconsin MBA at age 48! Go, Badgers!
I was trying to come up with an idea for a journal cover and had considered several cards, which I printed out. But none of them were just right. But now I wonder if I should have given credit to several people one of which would be you Lisa. Here's yours that I was looking at
So, so sorry. There are a lot of great people here and in SU, but unfortunately, there are a few that are not... I'm sure there is no ways to avoid this, but it will really hurt if you, and other fantastic artists out there, stop sharing your cards. I rely of so many of you for ideas, and I also like to share mine when I create something fun.
Just curious - have you dared to confront this person online? I think you should.
I was trying to come up with an idea for a journal cover and had considered several cards, which I printed out. But none of them were just right. But now I wonder if I should have given credit to several people one of which would be you Lisa. Here's yours that I was looking at
I'm sorry If this appears cased. In fact I like so many of your ideas but I truely am trying to create my own things now.
I checked them both out.. to me...CLEARLY that is not a CASE. If it is, I will NEVER be able to create anything of my own. By the way.. I just LOVE both of them. They are great!!!
__________________ Angie
Mother of three wonderful children (Brayton-17 months, Brianna- 5 & Kyle-eight) and one grown man (my DH).
Jennifer, as usual you said everything so logically and eloquently!
Lisa, please keep sharing your artwork! Unfortunately, it's just part of this business/craft...any business/craft actually. I'm glad SU took it off the website, and it's probably been a learning experience for all of us. In the future, it would seem best to just let the 2 parties involved resolve it.
I found an EXACT CASE of a card I had made on my personal website posted by someone here (before I started uploading my own samples here). I was shocked and hurt at first, but decided it was better for my own mental health to just be flattered. I read all of the praise the card received (and there was a lot!) and felt happy because I knew it was for me, and the card poster had to know it too.
Everyone, please keep sharing! Life is short! Be happy! Angie
I was trying to come up with an idea for a journal cover and had considered several cards, which I printed out. But none of them were just right. But now I wonder if I should have given credit to several people one of which would be you Lisa. Here's yours that I was looking at
I'm sorry If this appears cased. In fact I like so many of your ideas but I truely am trying to create my own things now.
WOW... thats COOL!! how did I miss that! Thats not a case at all. Sheeshhh. If anything, at most, you might have been inspired.... sheeeshh... thats what SCS is all about. You GO GIRL!! that rocks!
Lisa, please keep sharing your artwork! Unfortunately, it's just part of this business/craft...any business/craft actually. I'm glad SU took it off the website, and it's probably been a learning experience for all of us. In the future, it would seem best to just let the 2 parties involved resolve it.
Thanks.... I will.
I posted this thread because I thought people should know that is DOES hurt the stamping community when this Happens.... not just an individual. I am not a shy person..... but if I were I would have said nothing and just not shared anymore. What if this is happening and we are missing out on some great talent because of this happening to others. That was the point of the thread. I never named her name and was the very politest that I could be under the circumstances. I want the sharing to continue.
Just to be Fair.... you all should know this.... I have received an email from this Person with an Apology, a sincere one too. This was greatly appreciated.
Also.... I wanted to address something that was said earlier in the thread.
People do enter stuff into contests and magazines for both recognition and Compensation. I Think that’s wonderful. People aren't bad because they get paid or recognized for their hard work and talent. Let’s take JulieHHR example in this situation. She has been published MANY times. Every time she does it gives here more credence as an Artist in the publishing world. She has been a featured artist in many publications. Is she bad because she actually does this for a living??
We share on this site for that purpose, Sharing. I have never said otherwise. I love to share. But, that doesn't grant people permission to do what she had done. I will stand by that.
I dont remember saying that I want my name out there for credit. I just don't think it’s correct for someone else to take credit for anyone’s work. What if I want to submit that card for a contest for SU...... I cant now! It’s not wrong if I submit a card for the express purposes of winning a prize! It’s fun to win prizes.
Having things published is an honor. You should only submit it for publishing (when you submit it to SU, they disclaim that they might do this.) if is your own original creation.
I hope that this will not discourage people from case-ing and using these great SCS galleries to inspire artistic flow....... Just don't submit it and publish it as your own.
I agree with dot2dot's post...
I may be missing the point here. Yes, I could see how you are hurt, Lisa, but just take it as a compliment that someone REALLY liked your work. If we are getting this serious about this issue, is it all worth it...NOT in my eyes. But as a person is looking through hundreds of cards on many sights, you may lose track of which cards you saw where and my make a mental note of how the card looked or whatever and later produce a card. Not sure how it all happens, but I know that this may stop me from uploading cards for the simple fact that I may be hurting someone by using some of their ideas, without even knowing it. I really do like your work, Lisa as well as many others, so don't let the little things get in the way of sharing your work and inspiring others. If I would have let little things such as this get to me, I would have quite stamping LONG ago. I sure would be honoured if someone CASEd one of my cards...and I would say. "SO What!" if I saw it in their gallery....Let's just have fun with our stamping!!!
I'm quoting here from the July 2002 Stampin' Success (the first issue where they published a review of the winning entries), where Shelli wrote:
"We’ve also been concerned about attribution of artwork— that is, who gets credit? We receive hundreds of samples for the contests, and demonstrators sometimes tell us they got an idea from company-sponsored or group swaps or regional shares. We occasionally read, “If you use this, give Peggy the credit!�? on the back of the card along with the list of Stampin’ Supplies. A generous impulse, indeed, but it raised a
concern: What if a contest winner submitted an idea she’d seen elsewhere, or even her own idea that someone else also happened
to submit? If we published the contest winners, would we upset someone who felt the original idea was hers? Or someone who had submitted the same idea and wondered why the other card was chosen? The fact is, we simply do not have the time or staff to date every item received, then cross-check to verify if we have received a similar or duplicate item from another source. Therefore, we cannot require that the items selected as
contest winners (or featured on the online Stampers’ Showcase) are the original ideas of the creator of the card, scrapbook page, or other artwork submitted. We decided the best solution was to give credit to the demonstrator who took the time to create the art project and send it in.
Those have been our concerns. We hope this frank explanation explains the questions some may have about contest entries."
I probably have an unpopular opinion, but having my card CASEd would be an honor. We have no way of knowing whether the person who submitted it (-as a Regional swap?? as a contest entry?? Who knows? Certainly it doesn't say on the sample on the Stamper's Showcase.) didn't credit Lisa Lisa for the design. Shelli's words say, in essence, that SU!, at least in 2002, felt the best solution would be to credit the person who took the time to submit the idea.
I have never submitted any of my work to SU! other than at a regional or convention swap, and in all honesty although I believe it is my own work, it could have borrowed from any of the thousands of samples I have seen in my SU! stamping life since 2001. I'm not coming at this from defensiveness. I just wouldn't want to see people stop sharing, or worse, stop learning and even CASEing, from the talented people here on SCS. I also believe that if SU! pulls the CASEd card from the Stamper's Showcase, that they are doing a disservice to the person who took the time, even if CASEd, to submit the card which she stamped herself. Certainly, it would be illogical if they did this, in light of Shelli's words of July 2002.
I have to admit . . . jenhenry took the words out of my mouth. While I can understand Lisa's feelings that someone else case'd her creation and got credit for it on SU's site, the creator of the case'd sample did, indeed, create that sample and she took the time to either send it in or it got into SU's hands via a swap. Since Lexicon of Love hasn't been out too long and since we don't know how long SU may hold onto a sample before putting it on the Showcase, who's to say which card was case'd or that these two talented stampers didn't come up with the same idea? I know it sounds too coincidental; however, stranger things have happened.
As for sharing and case-ing creations, I totally feel that the majority of us get our inspiration from others. If that were not true, then there wouldn't be numerous magazines targeting the stamper demographic, and this ever-so-resourceful web site wouldn't have as much activity. Everyone of us gets our inspiration first with the stamp. Accordingly, how many times have you said or heard that "you don't have to be an artist to be a stamper?"
One more thing regarding getting credit for the inspiration . . . what good does it possibly do to say to a group of stampers or to print on the back of a submitted sample, "This card was inspired by one I saw on a web site?" Even if the demo whose been flogged with anger had said her sample was inspired by LisaLisa on SCS, that's not an in-depth credit. All that does is say to a group that the case-er is like the majority--her inspiration comes from many sources. It's almost as if you don't really need your full name and address to be listed as the source of inspiration, but rather would prefer that a case-er (for lack of a better term) admits that the idea was not her own.
I believe that *IF* the flogged demo did, indeed, CASE Lisa's sample, it would not have required much change to become her own creation, but that still would not have satisfied some. And . . . she did take the time to create it with her own products and to submit it to SU. She DID make that sample. I'd wager that there have been samples on there before that were case'd from magazines or web sites. I'm not suggesting that anyone should claim that the idea was theirs, but I'm sure there must be samples in the galleries here that were copied/inspired from somewhere else. Even to my own mother when she compliments a card of mine, I tell her the idea wasn't mine but that I liked it a lot. That doesn't tell her WHOSE sample inspired me, and she wouldn't really know anymore if I gave her the specifics of who, where, when, or how. I'd be flattered if someone liked my creations enough to case them. When someone submits a stamped sample, are they really implying that the idea was all their own or simply that the particular submission was created by them?
No, no one is talking about telling EVERYONE that your card was inspired by someone here on this site! I don't think anyone here expects you to do that. That is not why we share
This demo admitted CASE'ing Lisa and has apologized..... We are talking about separate things. I'm not sure if her intent was to submit it to SU! or somehow it got into the "basket".
You know..... I feel for Lisa. It takes a lot of time to sit down with some stamps and some ink and just create! Sometimes a lot of messed up cardstock and stuff in the trash. So, when you finally come up with something you like, you are proud of, you WANT to share, and then someone else submits (not saying she purposely did) for publication the EXACT card.... man, that is wrong, and it does hurt. Lisa was venting.....and she has the right too.
Just think about it.... it's happened to a lot of us. We work hard on our "creations" and when we share it feels great, but then to later see an exact copy and no one even mention they were insired by " " or even someone here on the site, stings a bit. Why is that so hard to understand? Sure, you get over it, and it still feels good that someone liked it enough to copy...... but not enough to mention it? We aren't talking about the example above.. that is CLEARLY nothing CASED. We all get inspired and we aren't saying you have to mention every little thing. WE CASE too!! If it was that big of a deal, we would have just stopped sharing a long time ago and just shared with the demo only sites out there... or not at all. It's not a share/not share issue. But, I can tell you..... among most demonstrators, it is totally respectful and common practice to just say... .case'd/inspired by if you totally copy someone's card/project.
So, hey guys... let's cut Lisa some slack... she once again handled herself like a lady. She vented... we are her friends. She has worked it out with this other demo.......it's okay. Let's just try and all be respectful of each other.
Have you seen all the great stuff in the gallery today? Whooo Hooooo!!
No, no one is talking about telling EVERYONE that your card was inspired by someone here on this site! I don't think anyone here expects you to do that. That is not why we share
This demo admitted CASE'ing Lisa and has apologized..... We are talking about separate things. I'm not sure if her intent was to submit it to SU! or somehow it got into the "basket".
You know..... I feel for Lisa. It takes a lot of time to sit down with some stamps and some ink and just create! Sometimes a lot of messed up cardstock and stuff in the trash. So, when you finally come up with something you like, you are proud of, you WANT to share, and then someone else submits (not saying she purposely did) for publication the EXACT card.... man, that is wrong, and it does hurt. Lisa was venting.....and she has the right too.
Just think about it.... it's happened to a lot of us. We work hard on our "creations" and when we share it feels great, but then to later see an exact copy and no one even mention they were insired by " " or even someone here on the site, stings a bit. Why is that so hard to understand? Sure, you get over it, and it still feels good that someone liked it enough to copy...... but not enough to mention it? We aren't talking about the example above.. that is CLEARLY nothing CASED. We all get inspired and we aren't saying you have to mention every little thing. WE CASE too!! If it was that big of a deal, we would have just stopped sharing a long time ago and just shared with the demo only sites out there... or not at all. It's not a share/not share issue. But, I can tell you..... among most demonstrators, it is totally respectful and common practice to just say... .case'd/inspired by if you totally copy someone's card/project.
So, hey guys... let's cut Lisa some slack... she once again handled herself like a lady. She vented... we are her friends. She has worked it out with this other demo.......it's okay. Let's just try and all be respectful of each other.
Have you seen all the great stuff in the gallery today? Whooo Hooooo!!
~C
Thanks Cami! This Demo was honest an admited case-ing it. And was sorry.
need I say more?
*GREAT* original card! It was clearly CASEworthy....
Thanks to the website, now all of us demos know who the offensive party is as well...did she really think that she'd get away with this nonsense? Believe in karma, that what goes around comes around, even if you are not there to see it. Had she wanted to simply CASE your card, that would have been fine. But to submit it to SU...and to clearly try to win something from it? Puhlease!
That demo owes a public "mea culpa!" Since she was so willing to publicly submit *Lisa Lisa's design* and ideas, she should come forward on this board and offer the both the credit and apology to which LisaLisa is entitled!!
edited to remove a name-please see TOS for details.Thanks
-camsmom
__________________ Hi...My Name is Kaylyn...I'm An Alphaholic.
[B]
And with that, I think we should allow Lisa (who started this thread) to stop and say enough. Lisa came here to vent-she was hurt and surprised when she saw her card here. I have had the same reaction to a similar issue (though not as big as on the SU website). She came, she vented, she released .
Since Lisa has posted that she has worked it out, there is no need for any of us to now jump in and jump all over the person who did it, or tell Lisa why she was wrong. The 2 people involved (Lisa and the other demo) have worked it out. That needs to be the end of it.
__________________ I want people to be afraid of how much they love me-M. Scott
Lisa Lisa - I haven't read through every single page of this thread...but I want to comment on your 1st post!
It is very rude that someone would COPY your exact creation. However - maybe when they sent it into Stampin' Up they did credit you. But when SU puts it on the showcase they mention the name of the person who send it in not the person credited.
If I was you, I would call SU support and ask them if there is anyway they can look up if that "stamper" did credit you on it or not. If the "stamper" did credit you than it's SU's fault for not giving you the credit somewhere on the discription. If the "stamper" did not credit you...than that it something SU! needs to be away of. It is almost like violating a copywrite law! I Think.
