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We have not aired the correspondence to or from this customer on this board. It may be considered appropriate for customers to post private communications on this board, but we cannot. Apologies, refunds, and the like are best handled in private and they have been.
I can generically explain why things are the way that they are. I can generically explain how the problem happened. I can generically explain that we have tried to make amends with the customer. But we have not posted any of the correspondence.
Likewise, the internal handling of our staff involved this very unfortunate incident is not proper for public airing and we would simply appreciate that you understand that people's careers are very real to them.
ATRS does ship internationally. They are a very different operation from us. They do many things differently (or is it that we do many things differently?) They have much larger margins that we do and they can afford the many international costs and we cannot. Email privately and we would be happy to explain clearly, in detail, and in a friendly way. It will make sense.
Judge a company by its established long-term character and not based upon one disaster. We all know this went very badly from beginning to end. Now, judge from what you knew, from this, and from what you observe in the future.
Well, unfortunately for you, there hasn't been "one" disaster...it's been one after the other for your company, as has been clearly outlined by numerous posts on SCS.
Still no apology for that very rude and unprofessional email, and I'm sure there won't be one coming.
Crafters protect each other, warn each other about bad companies, and rave about companies that are wonderful and encourage others to buy from them for their excellent customer service.
I'll give you one guess as to which category you fall into.
I had been wanting to order from frugalities---was waiting for them to restock their stamps, but I won't order after this. I work in retail and customer services can make or break your company---hopefully frugalities learned something from this situation!
We have not aired the correspondence to or from this customer on this board. It may be considered appropriate for customers to post private communications on this board, but we cannot. Apologies, refunds, and the like are best handled in private and they have been.
Please, please just post a nice appology. (Especially for DJ making the lynch mob comment and the other rude emails.)You can even be generic if you need ot be. No need for dollar amounts, poster names, etc.
I imagine something like..."Stampers of Splitcoast...I sincerely regret any hard feelings this private situation has caused. I want you all to know the customer does come first in our business. Without all of you, we would cease to exist. We value each and everyone one of you.
We do on occasion, like any other business, have errors that happen from time to time. We certainly strive to correct them and learn from them. Please visit our website and actually try our service before coming to judgement on us. We would be honored to work with your on your next order."
Please Frugalities, post an apology. It would go a long way to get back some of the posters who are on the fence so to speak about your company.
I feel for both sides. I do remember reading the warning that used to be on the site about how frugalities wasn't a bargain for international shoppers, and yet I also feel for this young lady who had problems. I do believe online shoppers should be over 18, to protect both the shopper and the store.
Please, please just post a nice appology. (Especially for DJ making the lynch mob comment and the other rude emails.)You can even be generic if you need ot be. No need for dollar amounts, poster names, etc.
I imagine something like..."Stampers of Splitcoast...I sincerely regret any hard feelings this private situation has caused. I want you all to know the customer does come first in our business. Without all of you, we would cease to exist. We value each and everyone one of you.
We do on occasion, like any other business, have errors that happen from time to time. We certainly strive to correct them and learn from them. Please visit our website and actually try our service before coming to judgement on us. We would be honored to work with your on your next order."
Please Frugalities, post an apology. It would go a long way to get back some of the posters who are on the fence so to speak about your company.
Too Late. Forced apologies are meaningless. IMO. There has been numerous opportunities (they have posted on this thread several times) to apologize...instead, nothing but accusations and defending themselves.
Lesson 101- It is always better to do the right thing in the beginning. Almost 7,000 SCS's have now viewed this post and formed their own opinion about whether they will order from this company in the future. According to statistics, each of those well tell about 10 people on average. That makes 70,000 that will hear about this. Then those 70,000 will tell their friends and family and so on and so on. Bad news travels fast.
I agree that this is sad for both sides. I also very strongly agree that online shoppers should be over 18. This most certainly could have been prevented. I appreciate Frugalities professional responses here and that they protect consumer privacy so completely. I am impressed that they care about their workers and their customers.
I agree that this is sad for both sides. I also very strongly agree that online shoppers should be over 18. This most certainly could have been prevented. I appreciate Frugalities professional responses here and that they protect consumer privacy so completely. I am impressed that they care about their workers and their customers.
She has every right to shop, she did so with her mother's permission
I don't know what professional responses it is you appreciate, I guess the rest of us missed them.
I also don't know what consumer privacy you think they're protecting. They posted details about the girls order, which I don't get.
Everything they have done, IMO, shows they do not care about their customers
I think sometimes, some people just like to disagree...;)
In the interest of amusing myself I just called the post office.
According to Debra at the 800 number, any security procedures done by any company do not in any way change what is done by the post office once a package is recieved at their facility. All packages are treating the same way when they get there and the only paperwork required is a customs form.
I then spoke with Beth who is an international shipping rep and she said the only time they use the term manifest is as it relates to the electroic submission of the shipping information. She said it's their term for the information they receive about the package before they receive it when someone is using electronic shipping. It is still subjected to the same procedures as any other package.
I was also told that they do not recommend dealing with any company who claims they are bypassing any of the usps security procedures or regualtions.
And with that, I think I have all the information I need. In the interest of fairness, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't jumping to any conclusions about this company.
I'm off to stalk Papertrey and try to guess the details of the Dirty Dozen ;)
She has every right to shop, she did so with her mother's permission
I don't know what professional responses it is you appreciate, I guess the rest of us missed them.
I also don't know what consumer privacy you think they're protecting. They posted details about the girls order, which I don't get.
Everything they have done, IMO, shows they do not care about their customers
I think sometimes, some people just like to disagree...;)
You are very wise myhappyplace.
I hope Frugalities is now aware of how many customers it has lost because of their rude and completely unprofessional behavior. I never ordered from them because of all the previous posts from the good women (and men ) on this board warning us of this companies questionable dealings. So glad I heeded the warning.
How about lost a potential customer! I have never ordered. I actually have an account with items in my shopping cart but will never order from them. So am I a lost customer. Dunno???
I don't know if I will ever order from this company or not, but there were a few things that concerned me about all this. The first being the bit about them bypassing the USPS. I am concerned that the USPS would trust any company to provide their own security screening. Just doesn't sound safe in my opinion. Thank you, myhappyplace, for looking into this.
The other thing that I found odd is that this company is so hi-tech that they can bypass the USPS and look up every single page a customer looked at, but they can't get their system to lock out international orders? They seemed to have figured it out now, so why not just do it in the first place? I don't really like the idea of charging a customer outrageous shipping in hopes of deterring them from ordering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myhappyplace
In the interest of amusing myself I just called the post office.
According to Debra at the 800 number, any security procedures done by any company do not in any way change what is done by the post office once a package is recieved at their facility. All packages are treating the same way when they get there and the only paperwork required is a customs form.
I then spoke with Beth who is an international shipping rep and she said the only time they use the term manifest is as it relates to the electroic submission of the shipping information. She said it's their term for the information they receive about the package before they receive it when someone is using electronic shipping. It is still subjected to the same procedures as any other package.
I was also told that they do not recommend dealing with any company who claims they are bypassing any of the usps security procedures or regualtions.
And with that, I think I have all the information I need. In the interest of fairness, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't jumping to any conclusions about this company.
I'm off to stalk Papertrey and try to guess the details of the Dirty Dozen ;)
How about lost a potential customer! I have never ordered. I actually have an account with items in my shopping cart but will never order from them. So am I a lost customer. Dunno???
Some people aren't bright enough to figure that out hon... but Frugalities will when the orders stop coming in.
Whoa! I just read this thread, all of it! Wow that email is just beyond rude and so unprofessional!! I am too on the fence of ordering a bunch of stuff from them. Now I definitely won't! I'm surprised that they are actually legit because I have seen their advertisement in several of scrapping magazines. I'm sorry you had to go thru this (bubblegum). That really suck royally. :(
In the interest of amusing myself I just called the post office...According to Debra at the 800 number, any security procedures done by any company do not in any way change what is done by the post office once a package is received at their facility. All packages are treating the same way when they get there and the only paperwork required is a customs form.
What the post office has said to you is both correct and not correct. For retail customers and letter carrier customers what you were told is correct. The woman at the post office probably is completely unaware of the programs that only a very few companies nationally are in and which completely bypass her own post office.
There is a program where mail is delivered to a "BMC" via "OTR" container from a "Registered Known Shipper" using a federally certified transport company. Yes, these parcels bypass numerous pre-screening and sortation steps. The local post office is bypassed entirely. This saves the post office time and speeds up parcel delivery. Very few businesses are in this program and usually a customer must ship 100,000 or more parcels a year to meet minimum qualifications.
-----
It is fair to editorialize about our poor handling of this situation and the wording of the email. It is fair to form opinions and even to express concern and reservation.
But I would ask a degree of caution be applied when posting "facts" which are true but not the complete story because these take advantage of a lack of knowledge on the part of other readers.
---
As for a public apology: We have described the entire handling of this as being very unfortunate and we have described the email and this situation as being poorly handled. Clearly we understand, admit, acknowledge, and have stated that from beginning to end this has been mis-handled. Because of this there are ongoing meetings, reviews, re-trainings, and changes within our company.
Personally, I think that intentions and actions speak to the heart more clearly than specific words. The sincerity of intentions are best judged over time after an event. We have not "blown this off" or ignored it--quite the opposite. You cannot begin to imagine the number of questions being raised internally. These range from individual personnel changes and re-training, to the core question of whether the marketplace can even accept the restrictions that we place on how we do business as an ultra-deep discounter.
How often have we all heard customer service agents swiftly utter a hollow and meaningless "I apologize" simply to appease the customer and (mostly) to shut them up. I find that phrase is so over-used as to have no meaning at all. A true apology comes from change.
You know the customer was credited very early on, we have modified our systems, we have acknowledged how poorly this was handled, we have explained that internal changes are being implemented, and we have tried to address the facts directly.
We respect that each of you will come from this with your own opinions and reservations. We would like to ask that you form your long-term opinion based upon whether we are a company that listens and cares and learns and truly apologizes, rather than one that merely utters the phrase "We apologize" with no more meaning than crying "Uncle." What matters is the thought.
Of course we do. Of course. How can we say it sincerely? By being sincere and through actions speaking far louder than words.
If it is soooo much trouble and Frugalities doesn't even ship internationally and one just got thru the system then why not just walk the package to the post office with a little green customs form. Or like has been said earlier a friendly email either verifying order or cancelling it since Frugalities doesn't ship internationally.
Also, I think this would die down if Frugalities would just let us vent. I have had bad experiences in Department stores vented and that was that. But Frugalities wants to "defend" themselves only using words like "to shut them up". Not really helping I don't think.
If it is soooo much trouble and Frugalities doesn't even ship internationally and one just got thru the system then why not just walk the package to the post office with a little green customs form. Or like has been said earlier a friendly email either verifying order or cancelling it since Frugalities doesn't ship internationally.
Also, I think this would die down if Frugalities would just let us vent. I have had bad experiences in Department stores vented and that was that. But Frugalities wants to "defend" themselves only using words like "to shut them up". Not really helping I don't think.
I agree. And still no apology.
But, I'm finished with this thread. Frugalities is just digging a deeper hole. ;)
But, I'm finished with this thread. Frugalities is just digging a deeper hole. ;)
I also agree. They can post as much as they want, they just come off sounding cold and insincere. I'd much rather give my money to Nichole Heady, Gina K., Christine from All That Scraps and Joy and Daisy at Eclectic Paperie. These gals know how to run a business and they do it so well! I'll turn to them whenever I need anything!
Oh, I decided LONG ago that I will NOT order from them. I have heard some bizarre issues. Most online experiences I've had have been great. While this is the exception, I see no need to put my "ball" in their "court."
I was just wondering if the owner, manager, (unless that is who keeps posting) knows that an employee keeps sending hateful, insincere messages. If we were complaining about a bad experience with JaneDoe.com (made that up) I bet she would not be posting messages here just correcting the problem. It just seems weird that any company would post messages here. Not to mention how does a company who claims they make very little money per transaction and it will take so many hours of work to make up from this experience have the time to follow our discussion.
I was just wondering if the owner, manager, (unless that is who keeps posting) knows that an employee keeps sending hateful, insincere messages. If we were complaining about a bad experience with JaneDoe.com (made that up) I bet she would not be posting messages here just correcting the problem. It just seems weird that any company would post messages here. Not to mention how does a company who claims they make very little money per transaction and it will take so many hours of work to make up from this experience have the time to follow our discussion.
Lot's of companies post here. Nichole from Paper Trey posted in a thread about someone being disappointed in the latest sneak peeks- she defended the way she was doing them, and then gave a bit more information to appease the poster. Gina K posted in THIS thread about how her company does business. There is a representative (though not an owner) of Spellbinder's who often posts to clear up confusion. I don't remember what the job title she gave was, but it didn't seem to be "just" a design team member (and even a design team member is compensated, by money or product, by a company)
BUT these ladies are also a vital part of the community, who add much more to a discussion than just a defense to complaints. BUT they also do post in some sense in a business capacity (though you can tell there posts are always careful not to advertsie!)
So frugalities, post away! But it doesn't appear they are contributing to the community at all.
/(I really think there is some fault on both sides, but on this site Frugalities is really the only one set to lose something big- customers! So as my mother always told me 'first rule of holes-- stop digging!)
Is there some missing dialogue- the part of what the mother said to get the response she did? Even customer service reps need to be treated with respect. I thought they were bending pretty far to try and make things better for the customer- probably way too far. This is a good example of why they should not back out of online requirements. The way I see it, Frugalities tried to be helpful and has only gotten a black eye for their trouble.
That is true about other business. I just recently check out a tutorial video and then saw that you could purchase them as well. Pretty neat.
I guess what I should have said is that is seems weird that companies that are just that - a company. Not stampers or scrapbookers and the ONLY posts are about business. Most of those being to come on here and defend themselves.
Chelsey - I just want to add that I agree with others that your age has no bearing on your post and I would like to thank you for posting your issues.
I am also in Canada and have ordered from several US companies - Papertrey & Gina K are my favorites. I have never paid anyway near $55+ for shippig - even for much larger orders than yours.
I am glad to learn of your experiences so I will watch when shopping online - to watch for the shipping costs before I complete the order.
I am sorry that you had to deal with the customer service (or lack thereof) and with the comments on this post that question your age and your right to post your concerns here. Both you and your Mom handled yourselfs very respectfully and it's too bad the CSR did not respond in the same fashion. You can be very proud of yourself.
I have also vistied your blog - you are a great stamper - hopefully this experience hasn't dampened your stamping enthusiasm.
I totally agree with everything said above :p I learn alot about online businesses from the forums and this one is no exception. I do try to stay clear of posts that are just plain bashing/venting/negative. This one could have ended that way, and came close, but has stayed focused on the issue for the most part. I did order from this company (for the first time) the last time they were at 49% and am currently waiting for the package. I was not happy with their shipping costs here in the US. So have filled lots of baskets that never made it to the check out. This was the first one that went all the way through. I am hopeful there is not problems with it. I NEVER look at the "help" section unless I need "HELP"!! I do read FAQ many time and search for the shipping info almost right away when visiting a new site. I am not sure I would ever place an order from this company again, due to their response to this problem. AND....they never fixed the lack of phone # in order to reach them if I do have a problem. That is my major concern. The only problems I have had with internet companies have been with ones that do not provide multiple ways of contacting them, especially avoiding giving out a phone number.
It also amazes me how fast they were able to "fix" the not taking canadian orders, yet were unable to do so prior to this :confused: It appears that their way of handling things is to be "less than up front" to begin with.
OH Well, {{{shugging shoulders}}} live and learn. Sandy O
Actually they didn't have to. Chelsey did. And while it does sound somewhat harsh not nearly as what Frugalities wrote back. I think I have probably had a money issue with a company and came on strong and accusatory. But in the end I have fortunately been dealt with in calm manner which resulted in me not overreacting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubblegum girl
well i told my parents about this and we just sent this email. so we will see what the morning brings.
To Whom It May Concern:
This is in regards to your email telling my daughter Chelsey that the shipping would be $55.95 on her order with you. When she checked out her order at your store it said Shipping would be $12-$15, this is what we authorized the purchase at. $55.95 is EXTREMLEY excessive and we did not authorize this amount. This is a case of fraud and unless we hear from you that you intend to credit our MC $35 before 10 am we will contacting our Master card and cancelling our payment. This is completely unethical, no one can justify spending $55 in shipping on as small a package as this. Word will get around of your excessive shipping charges.
We hope to hear from you tomorrow morning, Wes and Karen Navratil
I'm must be in the minority here, but just wanted to say that I've had nothing but positive experiences with Frugalities. I've ordered several times and have had no problems. I do live in the US though, so that may be part of it. Just didn't want everyone to be afraid of ordering from them.
I agree that this is sad for both sides. I also very strongly agree that online shoppers should be over 18. This most certainly could have been prevented. I appreciate Frugalities professional responses here and that they protect consumer privacy so completely. I am impressed that they care about their workers and their customers.
I've read this whole thread and I'm not impressed by any comments made on this thread by Frugalities. I feel some people are making comments about her age and it doesn't matter. They where rude to her and her parents.
well i told my parents about this and we just sent this email. so we will see what the morning brings.
To Whom It May Concern:
This is in regards to your email telling my daughter Chelsey that the shipping would be $55.95 on her order with you. When she checked out her order at your store it said Shipping would be $12-$15, this is what we authorized the purchase at. $55.95 is EXTREMLEY excessive and we did not authorize this amount. This is a case of fraud and unless we hear from you that you intend to credit our MC $35 before 10 am we will contacting our Master card and cancelling our payment. This is completely unethical, no one can justify spending $55 in shipping on as small a package as this. Word will get around of your excessive shipping charges.
We hope to hear from you tomorrow morning, Wes and Karen Navratil
How about lost a potential customer! I have never ordered. I actually have an account with items in my shopping cart but will never order from them. So am I a lost customer. Dunno???
A pp mentioned something to the effect that some of us aren't actually customers yet so they're not losing us. (I don't remember exactly how it was worded, I'm going off of memory.) I disagree with that observation. They are losing current customers and also potential customers. Potential customers become new customers, which is how a business grows. So losing us still hurts their business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittl1321
I really think there is some fault on both sides, but on this site Frugalities is really the only one set to lose something big- customers! So as my mother always told me 'first rule of holes-- stop digging!)
__________________ Ellen View My Gallery If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag.
~Author Unknown
I had a few minutes so I did check the posts from Frugalities. Their first post to me seems like advertising, not sure how that is allowed? One post even tell us what should and shouldn't be posted on this list. I really don't think they should be allowed on here unless they are contributing. They are the ones that caused this discussion to go on so long. They've jumped on anytime there is a concern about their website and at times have been insulting. It would be better if they would just take care of their business rather than aggravate threads.
My husband and I own our own business and we've had to swallow pride a lot of times because the bottom line is the customer is our business.
Location: Oh that poor carrot! It's been fondue'd!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulssandy
I totally agree with everything said above :p I learn alot about online businesses from the forums and this one is no exception. I do try to stay clear of posts that are just plain bashing/venting/negative. This one could have ended that way, and came close, but has stayed focused on the issue for the most part. I did order from this company (for the first time) the last time they were at 49% and am currently waiting for the package. I was not happy with their shipping costs here in the US. So have filled lots of baskets that never made it to the check out. This was the first one that went all the way through. I am hopeful there is not problems with it. I NEVER look at the "help" section unless I need "HELP"!! I do read FAQ many time and search for the shipping info almost right away when visiting a new site. I am not sure I would ever place an order from this company again, due to their response to this problem. AND....they never fixed the lack of phone # in order to reach them if I do have a problem. That is my major concern. The only problems I have had with internet companies have been with ones that do not provide multiple ways of contacting them, especially avoiding giving out a phone number. It also amazes me how fast they were able to "fix" the not taking canadian orders, yet were unable to do so prior to this :confused: It appears that their way of handling things is to be "less than up front" to begin with.
OH Well, {{{shugging shoulders}}} live and learn. Sandy O
That was part of the impression I got, as well. I wonder how many OTHER Canadian customers were charged so much and just paid it... I know there have been times when I was overcharged and just avoided the hassle altogether... granted it was only a few dollars in my case and not $40 or so...
I have ordered from Frugalities several times and have never had a problem with any of my orders. It has taken a little longer for shipments to arrive during the price wars but that is understandable--with the great prices I am sure there are a lot of customers ordering from them. I am sorry that you have had a bad experience with them but I will continue to order from them based on my past experience with them. My current order is on the way--can't wait to get it!
I'm must be in the minority here, but just wanted to say that I've had nothing but positive experiences with Frugalities. I've ordered several times and have had no problems. I do live in the US though, so that may be part of it. Just didn't want everyone to be afraid of ordering from them.
I dont think people are "afraid" of ordering from them ... it is more that now that we have all seen how they treat their customers and how they deal with problems that arise, people want to support their stamping sisters and also not order from a place where they potentially could be treated like this also if an unforeseen problem arises. Most of us would rather give our hard earned money to companies who treat their customers right and can deal with problems in a professional manner. That's just my opinion. I am truly glad that you havent had any problems with Frug.
