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Not to keep "talking" about this, as I know nothing about TJN or anything, but I think the OP would have been better off to contact someone directly. You can see who posted any given technique, so that person(s) could have been PM'd and asked if they got it from TJN, etc., instead of posting a very nasty message to "EVERYONE"--what was the point of that? Would you have said those things in person or just on an "anonymous" computer?
I'm not trying to be mean, just suggesting that you look into your own heart and be honest with yourself about what your motives were, and if there was another way you could have handled the situation without being so inflammatory.
__________________ Lynn
"Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right�--Lincoln
OP says in post #24 "I have never subscribed to TJN so I can't say if something is lifted." I thought that "lifting" - charming way to say stealing - was exactly what was meant by post #1 "I have watched, week after week after week, while techniques published in the Technique Junkies Newsletter get posted here on SCS only a day or so after they get printed."
And if she doesn't subscribe, how did she watch this happen week after week. I'm scratching my head here, and all I'm coming up with is... It was a bad day?
Think of techniques like recipes -- the same ones go around for generations, with slight variations. Then, a dusty one will get pulled off the shelf and everyone rediscovers it. I actually learned the double pocket thing on a DIY Scrapbooking episode 3 years ago.
Mary Beth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceandJoy
OP says in post #24 "I have never subscribed to TJN so I can't say if something is lifted." I thought that "lifting" - charming way to say stealing - was exactly what was meant by post #1 "I have watched, week after week after week, while techniques published in the Technique Junkies Newsletter get posted here on SCS only a day or so after they get printed."
And if she doesn't subscribe, how did she watch this happen week after week. I'm scratching my head here, and all I'm coming up with is... It was a bad day?
she was quoting another poster without using the quote feature.... she didn't say the top paragraph, someone else did...
OP says in post #24 "I have never subscribed to TJN so I can't say if something is lifted." I thought that "lifting" - charming way to say stealing - was exactly what was meant by post #1 "I have watched, week after week after week, while techniques published in the Technique Junkies Newsletter get posted here on SCS only a day or so after they get printed."
And if she doesn't subscribe, how did she watch this happen week after week. I'm scratching my head here, and all I'm coming up with is... It was a bad day?
She was quoting a previous poster without using the quote button. HTH
__________________ "We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anais Nin
I just read through this whole post and have been left with an "icky" feeling...
with all the bad stuff going on in the world...you (the original poster, I mean) choose this to get on your soapbox about?
[sigh]
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?
PS Happy Hump Day! LOL
...you think this is bad, i just went to the tutorial (which i hadn't looked at before) and read the things people said there...some of the comments are unbelievable...how can you be so downright nasty to someone who is just trying to do something nice...i have been stamping for nearly 15 years and have seen the same techniques/projects come around and around and around...maybe a bit different from one time to the next, but as a previous poster said, just how many different things can you do with stamps, ink and paper...how many different ways are there to say score and fold...if someone (the original originator from years past) was losing money every time a technique appeared in a tutorial/blog/website that might be a different story but as far as i know, there is no ascap watching the stamping world to sue the next person who stamps "happy birthday to you"...
For what it is worth,,,,,the double pocket diagonal fold card featured in this week's inkling was an article in Scrap and Stamp ARts April issue.....I need to go see if the same person wrote the article and made the tutorial-----
but good grief........get a life....there are only so many ways to do some things and folks are all the time playing with paper and something works and they don't realize someone else also "discovered" it......
I made and posted to my gallery some of the double pocket cards back in april...also showed my stamp group how to make them.....and tho I am a former subscriber to TJN, I have not received the issue under contention.
__________________ c-mouse-If you can't say nuttin nice--don't say nuttin at all. Thumper. Pansy
Card Sketch Challenge 1-227 done only 396+ to go to be caught up!!!!!
I am just so sorry that Pat got terribly upset over this and I wish there was something I could do to help her. I am also sorry that the thread with the tutorial on SCS got so trashed.
I just wanted to point out that as far as we know, Pat didn't get upset over this. The original poster is not Pat. I re-read the thread just to make sure, but I believe we have not heard from Pat at all. You may mean Claudia Rosa, the woman who wrote the tutorial for SCS.
I stand corrected and have calmed down enough to apologize for my outburst. I am not accusing SCS of stealing techniques since I realize nobody owns them as such. However I do find it very suspicious that when an issue of TJN comes out in print, it isn't long after that we begin to see Pat's published techs here on SCS. One after another and another and so on. Certainly not a coincidence that it happens like clockwork I think. Someone is taking the TJN techs and passing them on here.
I am also sure that your person-in-charge of posting techniques will tell you that they have done nothing wrong. I can see very well what is going on though so I don't believe that others cannot. TJN techniques are sent to the design team months ahead of scheduled publication so that would not be a problem for someone who is bent on taking them and passing them on. I stand firm on my belief that it is dead wrong to take something that someone has worked hard to gather together, that someone has a business that deals in selling their hard work to paid subscribers and post it in public without one single acknowledgment or credit to the one who did all the work.
I am on the Turbo Team for TJN and I can see the pattern here on SCS and how it "feeds" off Pat's hard work and find it hard to accept excuses that have been given for posting another person's work without crediting that person for it. I am sure the majority of stampers here have no idea what is going on, just as I am sure that those who offer TJN techniques know full well what they are doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitcoaststampers
let me start by saying Connie, you need to hang around here more. we've never used "it's critical of SCS" as the reason to delete or disallow a posting.
we've always had a good and positive relationship with Pat of Technique Junkies. Pat was one of our earliest newsletter advertisers as a matter of fact. if Pat has an issue with something we've published I'm sure she'll send us a note and we'll work it out.
other than that, I'll give you a little more info on how we select and publish our tutorials. Beate and guest authors write all our tutorials. Beate gets creative freedom to do what she wants, that's the first principle :^) we purposefully do *not* subscribe or look at Pat's newsletter, in order to avoid any question about borrowed language or inspiration.
Beate sets her own priorities about what gets published and what doesn't. oftentimes she'll respond to requests for a particular technique or project, other times she'll use popular tools or techniques to complete a project. and then other times it's just what she likes. Beate maintains a tutorial schedule months in advance, any timing similarities between our schedule and someone else's would most likely be a coincidence.
I can't speak to whether or not Claudia (this week's tutorial author) is a subscriber to TJN, her original text underwent significant editing after we received it so any resemblance or similar language between the tutorial published on SCS and any other versions elsewhere would again, have to be a coincidence.
the stamping world is pretty close-knit, at least the part of it that SCS inhabits. it would never be our intention to misuse material that someone else has published. returning to what I said at the outset, if a problem did exist I'm quite certain we'd receive a polite note from Pat and I'm equally certain that we'd resolve it in a friendly way.
Connie, a few thoughts that come to mind:
1. It appears the TJN editor is an SU demo so I would think she is quite aware of SCS and if there was a problem with techniques being posted she would have contacted them before now.
2. I don't see copyrighting notices on her website regarding the techniques.
3. Do you know for a fact she has created every technique shown on her site or is it possible she has learned them from, oh let's say, SU website or monthly publications, or paper crafting publications? Just a thought......
4. Some of the girls you are calling thieves seem to have hearts the size of Texas so I think you've stepped waaaaay over your boundaries with such blatant assumption.
5. And last: You've been lurking for TWO years and decided that this should be your first post :confused: Wow, my friend. :( I find that really sad.
Amen to all of this. I couldn't have said it better!!! (uh-oh, am i a thief now too? :rolleyes: )
__________________ Jen Z. in Elysburg, PA...not quite stampin' in Atlas anymore!
I am also sure that your person-in-charge of posting techniques will tell you that they have done nothing wrong. I can see very well what is going on though so I don't believe that others cannot.
Wow. If you actually knew Beate you wouldn't ever think such a thing. :confused:
Perhaps you've calmed down enough to apologize, and I just didn't see it? Where was the apology?
Where you can't believe nobody else sees it the way you do, I would say that there are many, many, MANY of us that can't understand your point of view. These are not "TJN techniques." Let me say that again: THESE ARE NOT TJ TECHNIQUES. Ask Pat, perhaps. From what I read she's quite forthright about that herself.
I've seen tons of things come out of TJ's tutorials. I can honestly say that few of them have ever struck me as "new." At best, they are "tweaked" techniques that have been around in one way or another for quite some time. Pat does a great job at compiling techniques and bringing them, via new tutorials, to newer stampers that might not have seen them before. Much the way that SCS does. The only difference, of course, is that SCS doesn't charge a fee.
I don't have a particular quarrel with TJs Newsletter. Heck, it's free enterprise at its best, lol! She's the McD's of stamping techniques, perhaps. But just as McD's is not the originator of the hamburger or its many variations, Pat isn't the "first" to come up with or share these techniques. As I say, she does a lovely job of compiling them and presenting them in a convenient, "all in one" type format. For some, that's more than worth the price of admission.
Geez, I have written and erased a ton of replies this afternoon. I should probably erase this one. I am just so tired of seeing people trashed and terrorized by a few thugs who can't act like adults. There is no excuse whatsoever for some of the cruel remarks made today about and to Claudia Rosa, regardless of the circumstance.
Last edited by Jeanne S; 06-04-2008 at 05:11 PM..
Reason: Removed "*****y"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SodakStamper
I have watched, week after week after week, while techniques published in the Technique Junkies Newsletter get posted here on SCS only a day or so after they get printed. I have often wondered if the people who are doing this, and SCS who most CERTAINLY knows where they are coming from ever feel in the least bit guilty?
This is the most blatant stealing I've seen. A person could say that nobody "owns" a technique I suppose. But come on people!! Every single issue of TJN has the techniques appear here on SCS almost IMMEDIATELY after it is published. There is no way that is circumstantial, no way!
Can't you stand on your own feet here at SCS without taking something for which you have not given any compensation whatsoever?? Aren't you the least bit ashamed of your tactics??
What can you say? I doubt my note will get printed here, after all, this is theft I am talking about. Too bad that SCS is running their own reputation into the ground, even worse....you, the members are letting yourselves be accomplices by not standing up for something that is totally and completely wrong, to say nothing of illegal.
I am not ashamed to sign my name, after all it is not me who is stealing is it?
Connie Piotter aka sodakstamper
can i just say WOW?!
and then add...
how can i be an accomplice when i have never even heard of this TJN...
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I normally stay in the background and don't comment on things such as this, however this is something that has troubled me for some time.
I teach scrapbooking and other types of altered art and earlier this year I had made a paper piecing for a layout using a generic idea from a coloring book. At the class, someone said "I just saw this on EBAY this week, is that where you get your ideas?". I was shocked at the time and went home to check EBAY and sure enough, someone had a layout posted for sale using the same paper piecing idea that I had made and used for my layout.
My point is that we all obviously love our paper crafting and want others to share in that love also. A piece of paper is only so big and there are only so many things you can do with it or so many layouts you can use with it - We all see things that inspires us, either in print or online or at a retailer and at some point that inspiration will come back to us and we will work with it.
Isn't that what Crafting is about, to share and be glad that we have so many like minded people that we can "enjoy" with?
If anyone wants to copy anything that I have made, I am flattered that they found inspiration.
This weeks tutorial was in a publication earlier this year and I also saw it demoed as a make and take, this tells me that this idea has been out there for awhile.
I hope the OP can lighten up a little, I don't think there is anyone on SCS that would intentionally do what was accused.
Maybe it's time for SCS to become a pay-for-membership enterprise, too. I'm in favor of that. Then people would have to pay to spout their opinions. Makes a person think twice, doesn't it? Just because SCS is free doesn't mean it doesn't take a ton of work to run.
Thanks, ladies, for clearing this up for me! I owe you both a coke.
Amazed by this thread, I was just skimming though and obviously didn't read carefully enough.
My plan is to continue to share what I've learned from my UL and friends, both "real" and "cyber," unless they have asked me not to. I know that my friends will continue to do the same. Were it not for the amazing ideas/tips/tutorials shared by the folks here, I know that my cards and projects wouldn't be nearly so nice. The people who share out of kindness and generousity are like pebbles in a pond - the ripples just keep going. That and the forum provided awesome "SCS brass"/splitcoastman/Daven and his team. You rock!
Here are the links to the past year of TJN and SCS Newsletters. I really don't see much overlap at all. And those projects that do show up in both, are ones that are very common and everywhere on the web.
Has anyone considered that just like there are only so many techniques to go around there are also only so many ways you can tell someone to fold a piece of paper in half at a certain point and score it (or whatever) so if the wording is what is in question, the accusers need to be more realistic in their expectations. I mean, if we all posted how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, i'm betting most of us would use the exact same directions, even though none of us are the inventors of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches...
__________________ Jen Z. in Elysburg, PA...not quite stampin' in Atlas anymore!
I vote for any and all threads pertaining to this situation be locked. Better yet, have them deleted.
Poor Claudia must be a mess right now. I wish I could give her a HUGE hug. This is obviously a HUGE misunderstanding and should just go away. :(
Maybe it's time for SCS to become a pay-for-membership enterprise, too. I'm in favor of that. Then people would have to pay to spout their opinions. Makes a person think twice, doesn't it? Just because SCS is free doesn't mean it doesn't take a ton of work to run.
I vote for any and all threads pertaining to this situation be locked. Better yet, have them deleted.
Poor Claudia must be a mess right now. I wish I could give her a HUGE hug. This is obviously a HUGE misunderstanding and should just go away. :(
I am also sure that your person-in-charge of posting techniques will tell you that they have done nothing wrong. I can see very well what is going on though so I don't believe that others cannot. TJN techniques are sent to the design team months ahead of scheduled publication so that would not be a problem for someone who is bent on taking them and passing them on. I stand firm on my belief that it is dead wrong to take something that someone has worked hard to gather together, that someone has a business that deals in selling their hard work to paid subscribers and post it in public without one single acknowledgment or credit to the one who did all the work.
I am on the Turbo Team for TJN and I can see the pattern here on SCS and how it "feeds" off Pat's hard work and find it hard to accept excuses that have been given for posting another person's work without crediting that person for it. I am sure the majority of stampers here have no idea what is going on, just as I am sure that those who offer TJN techniques know full well what they are doing.
connie, you're making a big mistake here and I'd ask that you please consider your words carefully before you post any further.
these types of attacks on the integrity and reputation of others, either individuals or organizations, are not typically allowed on SCS. the only reason we're allowing yours to remain is that they're *directed* at SCS. to disallow them would be to imply that we have something to hide; we don't.
beate johns has been a member of SCS for nearly 5 years, and a team member for almost that long. she's served on our design team, and helped create our fan club over 3 years ago. she patiently answers hundreds of emails each week from site visitors in need of help. she helps produce our newsletter and writes most of the tutorials that appear here. she's also the sole author of one of the most popular stamping blogs around. beate is our "person in charge of posting techniques". beate is incredibly talented and simply, a fantastic person. we welcome everyone here, but you're questioning beate's integrity with no grasp of the facts.
----
to everyone else, please keep further postings here as POSITIVE as possible. there is no ill will between SCS and the Technique Junkies and I don't want this discussion to take that direction. thank you for any POSITIVE contributions to this thread.
I stand corrected and have calmed down enough to apologize for my outburst. I am not accusing SCS of stealing techniques since I realize nobody owns them as such. However I do find it very suspicious that when an issue of TJN comes out in print, it isn't long after that we begin to see Pat's published techs here on SCS. One after another and another and so on. Certainly not a coincidence that it happens like clockwork I think. Someone is taking the TJN techs and passing them on here.
I am also sure that your person-in-charge of posting techniques will tell you that they have done nothing wrong. I can see very well what is going on though so I don't believe that others cannot. TJN techniques are sent to the design team months ahead of scheduled publication so that would not be a problem for someone who is bent on taking them and passing them on. I stand firm on my belief that it is dead wrong to take something that someone has worked hard to gather together, that someone has a business that deals in selling their hard work to paid subscribers and post it in public without one single acknowledgment or credit to the one who did all the work.
I am on the Turbo Team for TJN and I can see the pattern here on SCS and how it "feeds" off Pat's hard work and find it hard to accept excuses that have been given for posting another person's work without crediting that person for it. I am sure the majority of stampers here have no idea what is going on, just as I am sure that those who offer TJN techniques know full well what they are doing.
I'm a little confused (but this is nothing new...) First you say you realize nobody owns the techniques and then you're upset that there was no acknowledgement or credit :confused: For what? If they didn't invent and don't own the technique and their words were not taken, then what are they being credit for?
I think the whole "credit" thing has gotten a little out of hand. This used to be a site where we'd share ideas and now it's at the point where if I want to make a card for my grandma I have to PM, ask for permission, give credit on the card, to my gram orally and in writing and then post a link to the person's blog as well as give them credit by name if I upload, but I should only upload if it's not EXACTLY the same, cause if it is, then I shouldn't :rolleyes:
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and get over themselves. Sometimes it's nothing more than coincidence and I thank the OP for one thing, maybe everyone here will be less likely to get all worked up over a similar card being posted in the gallery or on a blog since we all see how ugly that type of accusation looks.
I have something positive...................and actually, I should have said it right away..............
My mom emailed me this morning, with a link to the tutorial and said, "I HAVE to make a card like this!".............so I checked it out, and for the first time in awhile, I'm excited to try something different!
I am just now seeing this thread, and have no real knowledge about TJN...however, I do KNOW that Beate is a wonderful person who devotes an enormous amount of her time and talent to this site. Any attack on her is totally unacceptable. Thank you Beate for all of your hard work, and thank you Daven, for your last post...I agree wholeheartedly.
I stand corrected and have calmed down enough to apologize for my outburst. I am not accusing SCS of stealing techniques since I realize nobody owns them as such. However I do find it very suspicious that when an issue of TJN comes out in print, it isn't long after that we begin to see Pat's published techs here on SCS. One after another and another and so on. Certainly not a coincidence that it happens like clockwork I think. Someone is taking the TJN techs and passing them on here.
I am also sure that your person-in-charge of posting techniques will tell you that they have done nothing wrong. I can see very well what is going on though so I don't believe that others cannot. TJN techniques are sent to the design team months ahead of scheduled publication so that would not be a problem for someone who is bent on taking them and passing them on. I stand firm on my belief that it is dead wrong to take something that someone has worked hard to gather together, that someone has a business that deals in selling their hard work to paid subscribers and post it in public without one single acknowledgment or credit to the one who did all the work. I am on the Turbo Team for TJN and I can see the pattern here on SCS and how it "feeds" off Pat's hard work and find it hard to accept excuses that have been given for posting another person's work without crediting that person for it. I am sure the majority of stampers here have no idea what is going on, just as I am sure that those who offer TJN techniques know full well what they are doing.
Perhaps Pat should re-think your position. IMHO, you have greatly over-stepped your role. You should have gone to Pat, then, she, being the owner of TJ, made the decision to contact Daven, certainly not SCS members in such a hateful, spiteful manner.
You have done irrepairable damage and owe all SCS members a great apology. How many subscriptions, from SCS members, do you think your actions have made? Most certainly not mine.
I do not think apologies to our SCS Brass would mellow what you have blatenly done to Pat!
Sandi
__________________ StormyElf'd '07Humble Ink Smears If at first you don't succeed, talk to God! Then, go put on your big girl panties!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernStorm
Perhaps Pat should re-think your position. IMHO, you have greatly over-stepped your role. You should have gone to Pat, then, she, being the owner of TJ, made the decision to contact Daven, certainly not SCS members in such a hateful, spiteful manner.
You have done irrepairable damage and owe all SCS members a great apology. How many subscriptions, from SCS members, do you think your actions have made? Most certainly not mine.
I do not think apologies to our SCS Brass would mellow what you have blatenly done to Pat!
Sandi
I completely agree! I had a similar situation on here with a designer from a stamp company whose owner I happened to know personally. That designer is no longer employed based on her behavior and overstepping her bounds...
I don't mean to offend anyone, but Pat Huntoon of Technique Junkies has gotten very upset about SCS members using her tutorials, as techniques of their own. As any junkie can relate, Pat makes the statement that although a technique cannot be copyrighted, her WORDS and sentences are. Therefore, you cannot just change a word or two in her instructions and consider it your own. Please, if anyone describes a new technique that is from the TJ newsletter, pleae give proper credit where it is due... refer to TJ Newsletter for instructions. This lady spends approx. 50-60 hours a week creating her newsletters, and works very hard to give credit to her contributing artists. Please offer her the same courtesy...
Cindy Frazier
