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What's the deal here? Ebay seller & summer mini pics.
After all the posts here about it being illegal to post pics, I saw that this Ebay seller has some pics from the summer mini posted. (BTW, I love the monkey set!) Looking at the seller's info, the store has been operating since 2000. So my question is - if the person running the store is not a demo does it make a difference, is it okay? I think if the person was a demo SU would've shut the store down long ago. Are there situations where scanning pics and sending them are okay? Guess I'm wondering because I want to scan a pic of Dino-Mite and send it to my daughter to see if my grandson would like it (I'd buy it for him). Normally I would have done so without thinking twice about it but the guilt factor kicked in after last week's discussions. Any thoughts?
I know for a fact I have turned this seller in more than once. I'm sure others have done the same thing. She has been around a long time and still going strong from the looks of it. I wish they would/could shut her down. I'm not sure about your picture question though. I'm pretty sure what she did is illegal.
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Well, considering they state that they have all products on hand & those products are currently only available to demos, I think I'm smelling a rat!!! I'm just a customer, though, so I really don't have an opinion here as to what SU! should do....
As for what you had considered doing, personally, I would go ahead & do that. If you're using it for personal use & not for sale, I don't think it's as serious. For instance, I copy the stickers before I apply them so I have a copy of the set in my storage box and in a binder...uh-oh! Are they coming to get me for that?? ;)
*note: the last statement was totally tongue-in-cheek...it was not a "challenge" or a nose-thumbing.
__________________ - Karen, mom to the gnome and the little cupcakes! Yep, I got A GIRL!! Fear is that little dark room where negatives are developed. - M. Pritchard
Think about it..Evil bay is not standing by it's own TOS because this particular seller reaps them a ton of fees between listings and final auction fees, not to mention all the paypal fees they collect (paypal is owned by Evil bay by the way) when she takes payment by paypal! I'm sure evil bay is just turning a "blind eye" to her copyright infringement because they are making a killing off of her!
This person has been reported several times...I know because I have myself reported the store. They are selling current stamp sets, sets that aren't released to the general public and also scanning pics of current sets...all big no-no's!! If you would like to help encourage SU! to persue the individual(s) that run this Web Store email:
First of all that is so bad of that person to ignore the copyright policy.
But I did enjoy my sneak look at what is to come and I would never order the sets off of ebay, I will wait for the catalog and order them from my demo.
K
P.S I think it would be fine to scan and email your daughter a picture of a set to see if she would want you to get it, I have done that before, to make sure a set if something the other person would want how else would you be able to show it to them.
I don't understand why people would buy new stuff off of the big E, if you watch what people are bidding up to, they would be better off to order from a SU demonstrator almost 100% of the time! I guess if you were looking for a rare, retired set but new stuff? Support your demos people and save some $$.
I would think if you are forwarding a pic to a friend to show what something looks like before they buy from you directly, that shouldn't be a problem but I am no expert. I don't see it as being unethical.
[QUOTE=Luv_My_Jine]I don't understand why people would buy new stuff off of the big E, if you watch what people are bidding up to, they would be better off to order from a SU demonstrator almost 100% of the time! I guess if you were looking for a rare, retired set but new stuff? Support your demos people and save some $$.
QUOTE]
I totally agree. I do a lot of selling on ebay (non-craft stuff) and a little buying as well. I always look at the SU! auctions and they get bid up to rediculous prices. I have seen current sets that go in the IB&C for $15 selling on Ebay for $50. **$50!!!!*** I just don't understand the thought process of some people. I think bidding is like gambling, you can really get carried away and not think about what you are doing.
I think that SU! HAS been trying to shut her down for a long time. The problem is that they cannot figure out who she is. Speculation is that she is not a demo and that she is supplied by several different demos. When you buy something from her, I think you pay a company name in a different state from where the goods get sent. She is very crafty and has covered her tracks pretty well. Don't worry, SU! is working on catching her, and they will. Don't think they are just turning a blind eye her eBay selling. When she gets caught, this will be a big deal.
That said, whatever she does or does not do shouldn't have any bearing on my integrity and my committment to honor my contract with Stampin' UP! regardless if I like their rules or not. If I want to be a demo for this GREAT company, it is my job to abide by the contract.
Just to put my 2 cents worth in and I am not a SU Demo...so you don't think it is all just SU that have this problem...you can go to EBAY and do a search and you will find baskets that we can't even sell yet, for sale...happens all the time after Leaders Convention in January and Regular Convention in July August.
One year we had a pie plate challenge to sell the most pie plates and you got a signed basket from Grandma Bonnie(important to LB people) and someone was offering a special on them on EBAY...
We report these people...Supposedly we have EBAY police but I don't see it making a difference...
My wish is that we as Home Consultants/Demos could come up with some sort of solution ourselves to present to our companies! It hurts our businesses!
If you look she is putting them up on a PREORDER not to be delivered until about June 9th! She could be a demo or a customer of one that is going to be putting in an order for them June 1st.
Maybe I'm totally naive, but I thought only demos had pictures of the new stamp sets. It was kind of fun seeing what they look like, and I can't wait to buy some of them - but I'll wait and buy them through my demo - not from an illegal e-bay listing!
This is not right that she gets away with this! If she's been doing it this long, then she should be shut down!
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Denise
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But I did enjoy my sneak look at what is to come and I would never order the sets off of ebay, I will wait for the catalog and order them from my demo.
I totally agree. It's so bad, but such a guilty pleasure to finally be able to have a look at the new sets!!
__________________ Wife to Kevin, mom to Micah, Rachel and Josiah (who is in Jesus' arms) 07/15/06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kar
If you look she is putting them up on a PREORDER not to be delivered until about June 9th! She could be a demo or a customer of one that is going to be putting in an order for them June 1st.
Some items are preorder, but there are other listed on that same page that state "on hand" or "in stock" as well... ;)
__________________ - Karen, mom to the gnome and the little cupcakes! Yep, I got A GIRL!! Fear is that little dark room where negatives are developed. - M. Pritchard
It also says that you get an inspiration sheet never before available. Is this for the mni sets, because there are no inspiration sheets not available right now.
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These photos on ALL of her auctions were loaded DIRECTLY from the Demo SU Site ONLY....they are not ORIGINALS of the stamp set. This seller has to be a Demo...or has Demos working for her...probably for a kick-back.. I just emailed SU Demo Support. I hate to see this...over and over again from the same seller.
Don't be surprised though if she is aware of this website and is constantly reading all of these forums about her. She is VERY good at covering her tracks.
I cant figure out why eBay doesnt work WITH Stampin' Up! to shut it down!!!
If this person is not a demo then she isn't in violation of any contract but is perhaps violating copyright laws. The demo(s) who released the information early would be violating the terms of their contracts with SU. I don't know which ebay seller this is but sounds like more than 1 is involved & they've thought it out very well. If I see something like this on ebay, I avoid them. You may never see it but I truly believe that "what goes around, comes around" & in time they will have to answer for their behavior.
For those who bid outrageous prices - they may be people who just get carried away or honestly don't know about SU. Hard to believe but even if they tried to find out what a set sells for, you can't do it by going to the SU site. I think SU would do themselves a great service by publishing a catalog on their website (without all of the ideas or samples). They wouldn't lose any revenue - those who want the full color catalog (w/ideas) would still buy it. Maybe if they did this it would help to stop a lot of the ebay purchases. Admit it - if you see something on ebay you love, you can't find a demo & get the info in time to decide not to buy from ebay.
Well, after seeing the sets, I'm relieved! I don't think I want ANY of them except, possibly, the beach themed one. The others just don't do anything for me. I was worried that I'd go on another spending binge when the mini arrived. I liked just about everything in the Spring Mini!
__________________ "Life is much too important to be taken seriously." Oscar Wilde Proud to be a member of Mo's Digital Pencil Challenge DT! My BlogMy Gallery
Well, after seeing the sets, I'm relieved! I don't think I want ANY of them except, possibly, the beach themed one. The others just don't do anything for me. I was worried that I'd go on another spending binge when the mini arrived. I liked just about everything in the Spring Mini!
Can I just say the cat in "Cattitude" creeps me out... None of their feline sets have come close to the cuteness of Meow Meow... but I'm loving the monkeys and bbq sets!!
EBAY seller Bad. Wouldn't buy from her, but enjoyed looking at the pics! However, with respect to SU's copyright --
Scanning a picture to send to your friend/relative to see if the person wants to buy the stamp is in my view ethical and by the way, legal under the circumstances described by the previous poster (too see if the person wanted to buy dyno o mite).
I'm pretty sure that copyright law does not prohibit ALL copies -- rather, the law has a "fair use" exception, that permits, for example, a quote from a book in a book review. Copying a picture without the intent to violate SU's copyright -- when you are not selling the picture, design, or otherwise seeking to make a profit off SU's design -- is perfectly legal and in my view OF COURSE ok ethically.
This would not permit, however, copying a picture from the catalogue to make a card -- even if you are not selling the card -- because SU is in the business of selling its designs for exactly that purpose.
If this isn't clear it is because Congress writes these laws so that folks have to hire lawyers to decipher them.
__________________ Dear Paperlicious is my blog...with a series on how I'm learning to improve my cardmaking by studying others.
First - thank you for helping me figure out if it'd be okay to send a pic to my daughter! I didn't want to be illegal or unethical in doing so but I did want to know if I should add Dino-Mite to the order before I call my demo on Thursday. I really appreciate your input.
Second - In rereading my initial post, I didn't mean to convey that if someone else is doing something wrong, is it okay for me to do so. Yikes! Had that conversation with my kids while they were growing up. (several times) I was just wondering if SU has different rules for demos and non-demos on the copying thing. Joan B helped to clarify that for me. (Thanks again.) And y'all made it clear that demo or non-demo, the rules about posting scans for profit is wrong. It's unfortunate that Ebay doesn't co-operate with SU since they have the person's contact number and address. There's another seller who has the summer mini sets on Ebay but says they are in stock -and her prices seem like they're pretty steep. I don't know what SU is charging for each set but I'd be really surprised if the monkey set sells for $31! Hope SU can succeed in finding them.
Third - I agree that an online catalog (even if it was just the name of the sets and the price with no pics) would be a good idea. So would a little clarification on the 'how to order' page. I admit that when I started buying SU last December, I bought from Ebay because I thought I had to either attend a workshop or host a workshop to order the stamps. I hadn't known I could by-pass the home workshop thing and just place an order. Then I found SCS and got a little SU education and got up the nerve to call up my local demo. She's great - doesn't ever pressure me to host a workshop. (Of course I've been my own hostess and earned hostess sets and SAB sets all by myself. lol) Anyway, that may explain why a lot of people buy from Ebay - they just don't know better.
Maybe I'm naive, but I think the problem here lies with Ebay. I'm assuming that SU has gotten involved to shut this lady down - I've seen multiple posts about her in the past. Obviously, she is allowed to continue. Perhaps Ebay gets a kickback on all things sold?!? I'm not exactly sure, but it has to be financially driven on Ebay's part. It might be against SU policy, but what about Ebay's? You'd think they'd get their act together and stop not only copyright infringement, but downright internet site abuse. Funny, it says she's "back from vacation..." I'm kinda hoping that meant she got shut down and now she's back...but then again, she's using the same user name! Uggghhh! It's kind of like that demo who was complaining that she got shut down by those of us involved in "the SU cult." Makes you wonder where these people were raised - no ethics, morals or honesty! All we can do is keep after them and keep reporting violations to demo support.
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*Shari*
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Dont forget that ebay has it's privacy law. If SU asked for this persons name etc, ebay cant give it to them.
I used to be in Mary Kay in Australia, they had the same problem, they cant actually be sure who the person doing the selling is - unless they bought something from them!!
I do think it is wrong tho. I'm a consultant here in Australia for a stamping company too, and I know what we have to go through to make a living from party plan. I was thinking about buying Fishy Friends over ebay, but have decided to hold a catalogue party down under. One for a lady I met who has just started, to support her, and two, to hopefully get some freebies!!
Dont forget that ebay has it's privacy law. If SU asked for this persons name etc, ebay cant give it to them.
I used to be in Mary Kay in Australia, they had the same problem, they cant actually be sure who the person doing the selling is - unless they bought something from them!!
I do think it is wrong tho. I'm a consultant here in Australia for a stamping company too, and I know what we have to go through to make a living from party plan. I was thinking about buying Fishy Friends over ebay, but have decided to hold a catalogue party down under. One for a lady I met who has just started, to support her, and two, to hopefully get some freebies!!
Alisa, are you ordering all the way from Australia? I didn't know you could do that. Shipping must be outrageous! But thank you for not buying off Ebay!
I should never, ever look on Ebay, it just makes me mad.
I love that she says she has the BBQ set 'in hand and ready to ship'. Demos only started being able to order it on the 1st! Unless she stole it from the warehouse, I can't imagine that is true!
What a sweet scam she's got going - over 2800 items this year alone! I'd love to know how she does it. Evil genius?
I also enjoyed reading the negative and neutral feedback she receives. People who have problems with her are "newbies" and she scams on shipping too (shock!). What a b*tch! Before I buy from anyone on eBay, I read all the non-positive feedback. It doesn't matter how many good comments they have, their responses to the bad ones tell you how easy it is to fix a problem. Even if I didn't know her store was illegal I wouldn't buy from someone that b*tchy.
Well, she contradicts herself because she first states at the top of her store page that all items are "in hand" and then when you go to one of her auctions it says the item is a preorder for June delivery. I could be wrong but isn't it against Ebay policy to auction items that are "Preorder" and not available at the end of the auction.
On a different note. I love the monkey set. What is the price going to be on it? I haven't received my Summer mini yet, but my demo has one coming to me from SU! Also, for how long are the summer mini items available? I would e-mail my demo, but my e-mail isn't working. For some reason I can't send e-mails. Happened before and then mysteriously began working again - Hmmm.
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The monkey set is $22.95 US. I *think* the mini items are available June, July, and Aug?? I'm not a demo & going from memory on the dates... ;)
__________________ - Karen, mom to the gnome and the little cupcakes! Yep, I got A GIRL!! Fear is that little dark room where negatives are developed. - M. Pritchard
I'm one of the bored people that reported this person! I even had a friend purchase something just so we could get an address! Stampin' Up said they would look into it, but they didn't seem to really care. There is supposedly only one person handling the eBay department and that person is swamped! I had to give up being frustrated & just carry on! If ou watch her site long enough, you'll just get sick! We have to take comfort in the fact that we are doing things the way we should!
1. She has to be supplied by demos. I've seen things on her site that ONLY DEMOS have access to, like stamp sets that just aren't available except if you go to a manager's reception. I know that she was one who had Sincere Salutations available when it had been mailed to demos only in December.
2. I believe that some people do buy things from ebay out of nievete about how Stampin Up works. Perhaps Stampin Up needs to have a more thorough web site that explains how you can do a direct order without ever having a party. They are strongly committed to the direct sales method, but some people just don't want to have a party. Most of my customers don't. That's why I do stamp club every month and they come to my house and trade being a hostess.
3. There is a HUGE customer base we are all missing, but Stampin Up is not. Hideelee ships international. How many threads have there been lately about getting Stampin Up to England? How would someone in Australia get their Stampin Up fix? Germany? France? Spain? Stamping has been a primarily American hobby, but that is CHANGING. For some, ebay may be the only way to get the stampin up fix. Can you blame customers in other countries?
4. Sounds like she may have some bidders raising the prices of her products. If she has one or a few bidders winning many of her bids, then perhaps they are false bidders. They just don't fulfill the transaction and she relists the product. This way she can be assured that they get a minimum amount for the products, therefore eliminating the fear of not making a profit. If she is willing to break the rules of Stampin Up, you bet she is willing to break ebay's rules.
Whoever Hideelee is, she and her cohorts have thought very carefully about how to run this gig. They are skirting rules very carefully and it is going to take Stampin Up a while to resolve this. However, this will never truly be resolved until Stampin Up products are available internationally and until potential American customers are better educated so that they will know how to get the products from their demos.
While it upsets me that this is the case, I think all we can do is turn them in and then go on with our lives. This situation is just a flaw of working with a direct marketing company, especially a really popular one with uber excellent products like Stampin Up. Ebay may be evil in some ways, but it also gives us access to things that up until now just weren't available, like rare collectables (retired sets that were produced years before we got into stamping....)
Happy Stamping Gals.
__________________ Life is too short: eat chocolate and stamp up a storm. It will come out OK in the end.
I admit I went to the seller site to see the stamp sets. My 8 yo DD came in and read over my shoulder. She immediately asked-"isn't that a copyright violation? I thought it's still the spring catalog?" "shouldn't someone stop that?"
It might be against SU policy, but what about Ebay's? You'd think they'd get their act together and stop not only copyright infringement, but downright internet site abuse.
In defense of Ebay, I have seen them clamp down pretty darn hard and fast on copywrite materials. I sell on ebay (between 0 - 15 primarily clothing/household items/week, certainly not "Power Seller" level), and I have had auctions ended almost instantaneously for products with brands such as Weight Watchers. Granted, Ebay doesn't end all WW auctions, but they do keep an eye on them and go through regularly deleting them. Why? Because Weight Watchers has some sort of pact with Ebay that prohibits the sale of their products (this was explained to me once in an "after the fact" email from Ebay, but I forget the details now). This is an arrangement the folks at WW made directly with Ebay. I'm not sure how it's done, but I know first hand that it *can* be done.
I am an independent consultant with Arbonne, International skin care and I have gone around and around with our corporate office trying to get them to devise a similar set up, but it never happens. Meanwhile everyone and their brother sells Arbonne on Ebay similar to what is happening to SU! (though far less volume as it is not as well known).
My bottom line though is that the options are out there for SU!, Arbonne, Mary Kay, Tastefully Simple, etc. just as they were for WW. But for whatever reason they aren't moving very quickly on it. This isn't ebay's fault. I say it lays on the shoulders of the company.
What's the deal here? Ebay seller & summer mini pics.
SU and Ebay
